The Pope and the Divine Feminine

[Sacredstar]

Dear Basstian

From where I am sitting the whole of Galatians is about Freedom and the whole book is so powerful I feel we could have a whole thread dedicated to its purpose.

It talks about Faith or the Law?
The Law and the Promise
Hagar and Sarah as the analogy
Freedom in Christ
Life by the Spirit
New Creation

For those that are not familiar with this passage I have written it in full.

Hagar and Sarah Analogy/Parable Galatians 4:21-31 NIV.

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants.One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.

25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written: “Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”

28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

30 But what does the Scripture say?

“Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.”

31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

I understand this to mean that we are not slaves of the law of Mt Sinai but of the freedom brought by Christ.

5.1 Freedom in Christ
It is our freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, do not let yourselves be burdened by the yoke of slavery.

4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

So how do you reconcile two Jerusalem's? One being above (the earth/or above the other) and she being our mother?

Now in Isaiah 28:18 GOD says "Your covenant with death will be annulled; your agreement with the grave will not stand.19 The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror".

Pondering..........


Kim xx

[Bandit]

israel has always been refered to as a woman and a mother through the righteous seed as in a woman in travail giving birth.

NOT a mystical goddess

[Sacredstar]

Dear Bandit

How do you reconcile one Jerusalem being a city and the other Jerusalem being above?

being love

Kim x

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by didymus

Ok? How do you know he is a militant, and a militant what at that?

Here is the list Did. You should read about them.

Dionigi Tettamanzi Francis Arinze Claudio Hummes Jean-Marie Lustiger Joseph Ratzinger Cormac Murphy-OConnor Angelo Sodano Ennio Antonelli Juan Luis Cipriani Crescenzio Sepe Godfried Daneels Giacomo Biffi Ivan Dias
One of them thinks he can "order" Catholics to read what he says, and think as he decrees.

Reading the Da Vinci code, for example, is considered to be close to sinning.

v/r

Q

[Sacredstar]

Well so is complementary medicine, eastern spiritual practises like yoga and meditation, so I guess we are all used to that. Most just ignore their innocence but the trials for heresy against their own priests reported in the British press a couple of weeks ago was alarming as far as human rights are concerned.

[Bandit]

there is only one jeruselem a city in the flesh PEOPLE
and one jerusalem a city coming down from heaven in which the people will dwell eternally.

revelations is clear on what the jerusalem above is

it is not a LITERAL woman or a literal mother or some screwed up teaching of gods and godesses having S-X.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

One of them thinks he can "order" Catholics to read what he says, and think as he decrees.

Reading the Da Vinci code, for example, is considered to be close to sinning.

v/r

Q

If this came to pass I think it would be a very sad turn for Catholicism. The tightgening of the reins (or in this case reign) can be felt in my neck of of the woods already.

lunamoth

[Basstian]

I am just so blown away that this is so hard to get. I am beginng to think if you dont have exterior plumbing you wont understand what Galatians is all about.

I am going to try to make this clear again.

Ga 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

Paul went to Jerusalem.

Ga 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

Ga 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage

They wanted Titus and those like him to be circumsised. Paul said it was not required.

Ac 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Ac 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Ok so we have Acts and Galatians going together so far.

Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Ga 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Ga 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Ok let me break this down the Gentiles where being saved and filled with the spirit left and right. Peter and James being Jews would while around gentiles be all smiling and happy about this and when around the Jews would say "oh they are unclean gentiles and not of the circumcision of the law." two faced it was wrong and Paul was willing to go all the way to Jerusalem to argue it. And he DID Peter backed down and stood with Paul in Jerusalem on this issue. ACTS CHAPTER 15.
Now somebody came to the Galatians preaching that they had to under go this surgery as full grown men and be circumcised.
Paul was fufilling the will of the elders and spreading the message decided on in Jerusalem about circumcision. And did so to the very end of this letter.

Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Now I dont see any hidden message about divine females there is none it is a simple message dont let any one tell you to cut the end of your _ _ _ _ _ to be saved. There is nothing female about that. The Laws of Moses require it as a sign of a promise made to Abraham. We are not under that law.

Using the Galatians to decieve people into believing something that is not true is indeed a sin.
And Paul had this warning you might have missed.

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I want you to note carfully HE DID SAY ANGEL and HE DID SAY GOSPEL the whole thing.
I keep sending this warning as did Paul but I dont think I am being heard any more than he was.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i do not pray to mary and i never will. the bible does not say she is the mother of God. I am not subject to any man of religious leadership.

this little bit of history, the scripture used and the topic of the thread do not have a common denominator.
i feel this was started in part to provoke division among the Christian brothers of like faith.

i will also point out your loose and swaying use of the word divine and its forms. it is only used in the scripture about 5 times relating to the goodness of God and femine and masculine is not attatched. Of its 25 other uses in the scripture it is in reference to evil and wickedness of men.
You use the word quite often and out of context of WHAT IS.

Star, I will never trust your mystic teaching.

If I may be so bold. Catholics do not "pray" to Mary. They ask Mary to intervene for them. Same with the saints. The rosary is not a prayer to Mary either. It is a means of focussing on the three sets of mysteries of Jesus and His life (Sorrowful, Joyful, and Glorious).

Did, catholics are Christians. And it is true that there is a type of mysticism about catholicism.

Mary, did not achieve "perfection" or an "immaculate heart" until it was decreed by the Vatican counsul. What she did do, was accept the will of God who had decreed, that He had found favor with Mary.

Mary also had influence over her son Jesus, as is noted at the Wedding in Cannan.

The division of the catholic church began in earnest by Father Marin Luther, 500 years ago, because of the corruption of the people presiding over the church, not due to the church itself.

Last note on Mary. "Mariolatry" means the worship of Mary, giving her the kind of honor due only to God (Greek: latria). Since Catholics justifiably give her greater honor than they give other saints, but less than they give to God (and not just less, but a fundamentally different kind of honor), Mariolatry does not exist in Catholic piety. In fact, the Catholic Church forbids Mariolatry because it forbids us to worship anyone other than God himself: "Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God. . . . Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God"

But for anyone to decree that any honor given to Mary constitutes Mariolatry, is wrong. He is unable to distinguish mere honor from adoration. One wonders if he thinks people adore as God the judges whom they call "Your Honor," or whether God decrees "parent-olatry" when he commands, "Honor your father and your mother" (Ex. 20:12).

Of course this is merely one catholic Christian's perspective...

v/r

Q

[Sacredstar]

In respect of Rome and the church was reminded this morning that while it does not live the principles given by GOD and specifically expressed in the bible; those that condemn will be condemned, what goes around, comes around around, the church is not living the truth or walking its talk. The same goes for Muslims and the Qur'an.

Dear Bandit

I agree

Dear Basstian

Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I think the confusion in the bible comes in because Jesus taught a different Gospel in the NT to the OT but I appreciate and honour your views and on this we have already agreed to differ.

Dear Q

I reported what I witnessed in the Cathedral in Florence, apart from that I agree with a majority of what you have written.

Can you demonstrate any imperfection from Mary while on earth? Who are we to say that she was imperfect or anyone else for that matter, I thought only GOD had this right.

Surrending human will to GOD's will I think you will find is viewed as a part of perfection in the bible.

It is one thing to kneel before GOD it is quite something else to surrender one's human will and life completely.

Dear All

Let us not step backwards we are only sharing here not converting or preaching.

Love beyond measure

Kim xx

[Sacredstar]

I feel this link explains the old and new covenant well with references with biblical passages.

http://www.godstenlaws.com/law-grace/new-covenant.html

being love

Kim xx

[didymus]

Basstian, are you saying that Sarah is divine then?

I read Galatians(well, not the whole thing) and I still think that this verse is up for interpretation. Paul compared Hagar to Mt. Sinai.

"But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written......

If you think that this Jerusalem represents Sarah then, hey, cool. It could also represent Elizabeth( John's mother)

What do you make of Paul's quote in Galatians 5:2?

"Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you thatif you let yourself be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Q

I reported what I witnessed in the Cathedral in Florence, apart from that I agree with a majority of what you have written.

Can you demonstrate any imperfection from Mary while on earth? Who are we to say that she was imperfect or anyone else for that matter, I thought only GOD had this right.

Surrending human will to GOD's will I think you will find is viewed as a part of perfection in the bible.

It is one thing to kneel before GOD it is quite something else to surrender one's human will and life completely.

Yes, Mary was born, and that makes her imperfect. We say she and everyone else here is imperfect because God says we are imperfect, from conception to the grave.

Let me also point out that Mary calls Jesus Lord, as will every living thing and being (eventually). That too is in the Bible.

Surrendering human will before God is not what God wants. He wants us to willingly turn to Him. There is no surrendering of the will. He wants us to choose Him, not be forced by Him. God is the only one with Perfect will, and perfect love, we are not.

We are not puppets on strings. Let me point out that unlike the heart (with its multitude of feelings, emotions, and shadows, the will is a simple thing. Yes, or No. The strength (or weakness) of one's will is in direct proportion to the desires of the heart.

I really don't want to quote scripture and verse but will, if I must. Suffice it to say God, specifically declared that no is perfect, all fall short, and without Jesus, we will fail, and die. No one is going to change what is specifically stated in the Bible.

For Christians, there is one path, one way. I don't know about others, and I don't care to speculate on the issue of others. They have free will...

v/r

Q

[Basstian]

Originally Posted by Basstian

Which makes you a Child of the promise and a child of Sarah the mother of that promise. NOT DIVINE but unbelieving in that she sent in the bondwoman because she didnt believe she also cast her out because God proved true.

I already addressed that issue Sarah was a wrinkled up little old lady that didnt believe God could make her fertile. But through her God showed His promise to be true.

If you be circumcised thinking it will save you than your taking Christ out of the picture. If your circumcised because it seems to be cleaner and easier for a child to keep clean and healthy than you are ok. Circumcision really wasnt the total issue but whether you fully accepted Jesus as the one and only way to salvation. If I say Jesus is the way but you have to grow a beard too. I take Jesus out of the picture. That simple.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Q

Well in Christianity literal fundamentals of the bible you are correct.

"Thy will be will done"

Means just that GOD's will not our will.

The bible says obedience and I have been given the word surrender, the reason we were given free will was so that we could choose to surrender it to GOD. You prefer the word obey because it is used in the bible but that is a slightly different emphasis as I am sure that you will agree.

When one obeys one as no choice which kinda takes away free will.

Love beyond measure

kim xx