The Oil

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, wil!

Originally Posted by wil

Homeland security says 3 days water and food should be on hand in each household...

With all due respect to our fine men and women in uniform who put themselves at risk saving our butts when these hypothetical situations turn real...

We also know just how well government is capable of responding to a major disaster. It is probably not quite fair to equate FEMA with the uniformed services, but both get their highest orders from the same place. Between red tape, bureaucratic goobledigook, snafus, and the typical government hourly employee, frankly its a wonder sometimes that anything ever gets accomplished, nevermind about timely manner.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, InLove!

Originally Posted by InLove

Do those OT passages have anything to do with the "Hannukah Oil"?

If I recall correctly, I think you will find the Hannukah story in the intertestamental apocryphal books 1 & 2 Maccabees. It was the brothers Maccabee that led the rebellion against Antiochus Epiphanes, ousting Greek rule and briefly reinstating Jewish rule over Palestine just prior to Julius (?, possibly Augustus) Ceasar sending the Roman army to occupy and annex Palestine to the Roman Empire. The Maccabean period as I recall lasted right around 100 years give or take.

While I will gladly defer to our more learned Jewish friends, my understanding is that the Hannukah story stems from the cleansing and rededicating of the Temple after Antiochus was booted from the country.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I was actually going to get into this passage, but you beat me to it, Prober.

Oops.

So since we're here, here's my take.

Like I said before, God breathed His spirit in man. In this case, the little oil that the widow had represents her spirit, but God through Elijah was able to increase her spirit, through the Spirit of God. The moral here is that it doesn't matter what you have as long as it is available for God's use (think mustard seed faith, feeding of the 5000). God will operate within the one who is willing to be used by Him. Don't quench the Spirit of God.

I like this...yes, G-d can use anyone. That's the beautiful thing!

[InLove]

I agree that the parable has much to say about preparedness. So for those of us who lean toward the oil representing the Holy Spirit, then I am thinking about the attributes of that Spirit. For instance, the description of the fruits of the Spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. --Galations5:22-23

So if we are already accustomed to operating from this position, then perhaps we are carrying that extra oil?

InPeace,
InLove

[Muslimwoman]

as salaam aleykum

Okay I'm completely confused . The first line likens the virgins to the kingdom of heaven, yet apparently 5 are very blonde cheerleaders ( ). Yet the virgins then appear to become the believers and non believers. Is it talking about the virgins being the people to inhabit the kingdom of heaven? It ends with you never know when the Son of Man comes, so must be referring to the return of Jesus (pbuh) for Judgement Day because it is in Matthew so Jesus (pbuh) had already been? So to my uneducated guess it is talking about faith - it's a bit late to try to get faith after the fact, when you realise your touche is on the line. Does that make any sense?

Oh pleeeeease give me the answer - can I crib off someone?

Salaam


17th you are so naughty but your crayon comment was just too funny.

[InLove]

as salaam aleykum, Muslimwoman

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Okay I'm completely confused . The first line likens the virgins to the kingdom of heaven, yet apparently 5 are very blonde cheerleaders ( ). Yet the virgins then appear to become the believers and non believers. Is it talking about the virgins being the people to inhabit the kingdom of heaven?

Don’t feel lonely! I am a bit confused about it, too. From what I can gather, the 10 virgins are actually bridesmaids—in other words, part of the wedding party. Some folks think that all ten virgins represent believers, but that the foolish ones were low on “oil” either because they were distracted or lazy or just plain burnt out—you know, like tired, maybe? Other folks say that the difference amounts to belief and unbelief. I tend to think of it in the previous context because it does say they initially arrived, they had some oil, but not enough to last until the groom showed up.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

It ends with you never know when the Son of Man comes, so must be referring to the return of Jesus (pbuh) for Judgement Day because it is in Matthew so Jesus (pbuh) had already been?

Well, it is recorded that Jesus used this parable while He was here in the flesh. I personally think that the passage may either refer to “endtime” events, such as those so often discussed in the book of Revelation, or perhaps it is alluding to our own individual physical death. Or both. (Again, remember that I don’t always read things in the extreme literal sense. I might at times, but then I also take different approaches at other times—especially when I am trying to glean the deepest essence of the words available to me.) Others might see things quite differently.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

So to my uneducated guess it is talking about faith - it's a bit late to try to get faith after the fact, when you realise your touche is on the line. Does that make any sense?

Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Oh pleeeeease give me the answer - can I crib off someone?

You are always welcome to look at my paper, but I cannot guarantee it will result in an A+ from all the teachers.

InPeace,
InLove

[Tao_Equus]

Sorry guys n gals.... but... my version still the best :-p

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by InLove

Don’t feel lonely! I am a bit confused about it, too.

wa aleykum salaam habibty

I found this, it is rather short but puts a new slant on things, introducing the idea that it refers to the Jewish nation.

http://www.graciouscall.org/index.php?op=NEPrint&sid=40

Question 1 is quite an easy read re the oil parable:

Questions On Jesus' Teaching

As an aside. Look at question 22 on the above site, I am becoming convinced that religious leaders in general (from all religions) are all sex mad. He is talking about Jonah and the whale and the creation in 6 days, so why do people not believe them - one answer is this:

Influence of a permissive morality that denies the marriage relationship and existence of sexual sins.

How can this lead people not to believe the story of Jonah or the creation in 6 days? Honestly, sex mad the lot of them. That is what happens when you give men 2 brains

Salaam

[seattlegal]

Hey, InLove, do you think the "oil" might be compassion for others, as a fuel to help and teach them?

[InLove]

Hi Everyone--

I realize I am doing this a lot lately, but again, I want you to know that I haven't forgotten the conversation, and I appreciate all the comments and questions, and I do plan to add some more of my own as soon as I can. I'm not feeling so well these days, and this is definitely slowing me down. But hopefully, I'll be able to put together something thoughtful and useful, anyway.

In the meantime, feel free to continue the discussion if you are so inspired. I am reading along when I can. I guess I just wanted you to know I haven't abandoned the thread, but that I am just having a bit of trouble expressing my thoughts at the moment. I don't want my present (and hopefully temporary) silence to be taken the wrong way.

Love and thanks to all of you--

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

Hi. Thanks for your patience, everyone.

Wil and juan (my buds), I may be a little thick, but I’ve looked at the parable from every angle I know how, and I can’t find an endorsement for selfishness. Even with the examples referenced. To me, that just wouldn’t go hand-in-hand with the rest of the teachings of Jesus. Maybe Jesus was just using an everyday scenario and the logical results of that scenario to explain something in terms to which His audience at the time could relate. That’s not to say, of course, that there aren’t timeless elements in the message, but I still don’t think the focus is meant to be on the idea that the people who had the oil weren’t sharing—unless, as has been considered here, the oil represents something one must seek out for one’s self and not something that can be acquired on another’s behalf. Then maybe I can see the point in purposely including it as part of the lesson, if only to invoke these very questions we ponder now. (I am reading my own words back, wondering if I am succeeding in anything near coherence? )

MW, thanks for the links. I found some things I can make sense of there, and some I can’t quite grasp. That is the first time I’ve ever heard the parable applied to the nation of Israel this way. I think that it comes out of a Christian context more than a Jewish one, for certain! Part of it does, however, support my contention above that we need not get bogged down in every single aspect of the story in order to focus on the main theme. And yeah—I agree that the sex reference seems to be a big stretch. But in all fairness, I can't blame it solely on the men.

SG, I definitely think it has to do with compassion, as this is listed first among the fruits of the Spirit. I suppose that if we are “running on compassion”, it would follow that we would be found demonstrating it whenever the crucial moment comes.

Some other observations which have not been mentioned on this thread so far have recently come to my attention. I’m mulling over them, trying to decide whether to introduce them here….

InPeace,
InLove

[ardenz]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi Everyone--

Peace.

I've been wanting to ask this for a while, and the subject has recently been alluded to on another thread. So maybe this is a good time to bring it up.

I have thoughts on this, but I'd like to hear from others. What do you think "the oil" to which Jesus refers to in the following parable represents?

From Matthew 25:

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Looking forward to responses...

InPeace,
InLove

hello In Love,

I am new to this thread and have given it a run through ..loved all the different contributions. Of course the virgins and bridegroom aspect does confuse the issue - I have a bad catholic education and barely remember the parable and it probably did have sexual overtones for us.

But for me now it has to relate to some inner knowledge and awareness that the 5 prepared have. It is not selfishness - selfknowledge is something acquired through looking within.

ard

[InLove]

Hi ardenz. Welcome to the discussion.

I, too, am finding the various contributions on this thread quite stimulating. There is much I have not yet managed to comment on, but I keep going back through and reading. So I have all these curious thoughts swirling around in my head, but not in my fingertips so far.

And don't feel bad about having a "bad" Catholic education. I barely had any at all until I came to CR, and it boggles my brain sometimes. The teachings in my Protestant background seem so close and yet so different, all at once. But I find hope in focusing on the many (and pretty basic) similarities.

The sexual overtones I was referring to in my last post were in reference to Muslimwoman's comments on the side regarding the Biblical account of the flood. It was in one of the links she provided--I think it is actually question #3 under that link, not #2. However, now that I think about it, the word "virgin" does by default lend itself to these kinds of observations, if only in passing. (Just ask Tao_Equus. He's over in the naughty corner, drawing wonky crosses and writing on the white walls with his white crayon. He knows we see him. )

Originally Posted by ardenz

But for me now it has to relate to some inner knowledge and awareness that the 5 prepared have. It is not selfishness - selfknowledge is something acquired through looking within.

I am just wondering, would you say that it is possible to look within and find a source from outside ourselves? (I know it sounds like a trick question or something, but I promise it isn't. I am just interested in your view.)

InPeace,
InLove

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by InLove

MW, thanks for the links. I found some things I can make sense of there, and some I can’t quite grasp. That is the first time I’ve ever heard the parable applied to the nation of Israel this way. I think that it comes out of a Christian context more than a Jewish one, for certain! Part of it does, however, support my contention above that we need not get bogged down in every single aspect of the story in order to focus on the main theme. And yeah—I agree that the sex reference seems to be a big stretch. But in all fairness, I can't blame it solely on the men.

as salaam aleykum

Well I hadn't heard of it in any context so just looked for different views. Oh I always blame it on the men, they are just such easy scapegoats.

Salaam

[ardenz]

Originally Posted by InLove

I am just wondering, would you say that it is possible to look within and find a source from outside ourselves? (I know it sounds like a trick question or something, but I promise it isn't. I am just interested in your view.)
InPeace,
InLove

To have a flame, oil is needed, the lamp a container, the wick a conduit dipped in the oil waiting for the flame, (now we have electricity but that's beside the point)

They all have the vessels and a trimmed wick - but not all have the oil. The wise have brought their own and are prepared; the foolish, in looking to get it somewhere else at the last minute miss out. The wise have found an internal source (think oil well underground) which is probably linked to a wider network - maybe the greater oversoul or spirit that connects everything and is a constant supply if you ask.

You can't tell someone where to find the source, they need to find it themselves.