The Oil

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by wil

Now I know I'm gonna get accused of twisting words. But if I replace Holy Spirit as you described in with the text of the story I get...

The smart virgins had already been saved by Jesus, when they headed for the bridegrooms as evidenced by full vessels of Holy Spirit?

and the foolish versions were not yet saved...as they had enough holy spirit to keep their lamps burning till midnight but not enough to keep them burning after midnight (there is suddenly a turning into pumkins aspect here as well)

and if you have the holy spirit in you, it is common to tell others to head off to the store to go get their own, as you won't share, and to lock the doors behind you...

and if you go get the holy spirit and then come a knocking the bridegroom will say..."I don't know you, go away"

Or you can read the answer in Matthew 24

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Either way the conclusion is the same..

[InLove]

Hey Everyone.

I’m still reading along. Thanks for all the comments so far. Interesting discussion. Sorry I haven’t contributed more to it, but I have been kind of busy elsewhere.

But, just a quick thought here, for now....

I don’t think the intention of the parable is to condone selfishness. After all, no one in the bridal party knew exactly when the groom would knock on the door. They only knew to wait for him. Does that observation help?

(Oh, and welcome to CR, Plato! We talk about you all the time!! Maybe now we can clear up this Atlantis debate. )

InPeace,
InLove

[Prober]

Perhaps the oil is the time you've invested in learning G-d's word and your understanding of it. You can't give it to someone because they have to invest time and learn for themselves. The lamp might be your mind and the wick how well you keep your mind focus on G-d's word. The light would be your good works.

If you fell asleep and your light went out. You could more easily remind yourself of G-d's truth, get that lamp burning again and join the feast.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Prober

Perhaps the oil is the time you've invested in learning G-d's word and your understanding of it. You can't give it to someone because they have to invest time and learn for themselves. The lamp might be your mind and the wick how well you keep your mind focus on G-d's word. The light would be your good works.

If you fell asleep and your light went out. You could more easily remind yourself of G-d's truth, get that lamp burning again and join the feast.

That looks like a viable interpretation. And one would have to go back and invest some time to replenish this...and once you have it your vessel would always be full. For some reason the other trait of oil, oiling parts, reducing friction, allowing things to work better comes to mind in your interpetation.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

and if you have the holy spirit in you, it is common to tell others to head off to the store to go get their own, as you won't share, and to lock the doors behind you...

and if you go get the holy spirit and then come a knocking the bridegroom will say..."I don't know you, go away"

ps...I've played the same with faith and consiousness and belief...and am still contemplating how to handle this oil...

It's not that the five wise virgin don't want to share, it's just that we cannot "save" another person, only God can do this. If I could save everyone I met, I would gladly do so.

The Holy Spirit brings life to a soul. The foolish virgins might have had life initially (God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul), but our spirit cannot sustain itself. We must remain in communion with the One who give us life, which is something the wise virgins did and the folish virgins failed to do..

[wil]

Originally Posted by Dondi

It's not that the five wise virgin don't want to share, it's just that we cannot "save" another person, only God can do this. If I could save everyone I met, I would gladly do so.

So in this interpretation the bridegroom is representative of heaven and not Christ? So the seller they are being sent to is Christ? But when they came back they were denied entrance?

Or if the bridegroom is Christ...who is the seller they are sent to?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

So in this interpretation the bridegroom is representative of heaven and not Christ? So the seller they are being sent to is Christ? But when they came back they were denied entrance?

Or if the bridegroom is Christ...who is the seller they are sent to?

God the Father.

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" - John 15:26

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." - John 16:7

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Wil!

Originally Posted by wil

but I do think it is a virtue....and wrote about it onced, and even again..

Cool!

I want you to consider raising your consciusness, to the absolutely highest possible, consider taking your path to the ultimate, meditate till you levitate, be so good, so righteous you ascend, follow the pillars daily….whatever it takes selfishly attain spirit...

...Be selfish, help as many people as you can to do the same.

Indeed!

Can't speak for Ayn Rand, as far as I understand she was an atheist. But as for me and my comment, I think you fairly well nailed it.

It seems to me a lot of people equate selfishness with depriving others, and that is simply not the case. Selfishness is looking out for oneself with the understanding that others may not be doing (or even able to do) so for you. I cannot expect someone else to go to school for me, earn my degree, and "unselfishly" hand it over giving me all the credit. I must do my own homework.

There's nothing wrong with seeking the assistance of others along the path while I am applying myself towards that degree, but I must selfishly conduct my affairs towards my end goal.

In the case of the virgins and oil, those who were prepared did so by applying themselves with diligence. Those who were not prepared figured they could "just borrow some" and skate on into the party clutching someone else's skirttail. They expected others to do for them, rather than selfishly doing for themselves.

From here I could launch into a tirade about socialism, but to maintain the integrity of this thread, I will not.

The point is, as you so ably noted, that sometimes selfishness is a virtue...when it is not at the expense of another. Note with the virgins, those "with" did not selfishly take from those "without." Whereas those "without" selfishly desired to take from those "with."

[juantoo3]

I'd like to present an example, if I may be indulged?

There is a huge storm blowing your way. You live in a sturdy house, but it is apparent there is going to be some serious damage all around. The electrical power will be out for weeks.

Your family has prepared with a stockpile of food, water and fuel that will last for one week. The family next door, good friends, have not prepared.

The storm comes. The power goes out. Everybody is alive and well. Except here's the problem...

It is going to be at least a week before the government can get any assistance in to help. You are now faced with a choice, feed you neighbors because they were not wise enough to set aside an emergency store and let your own children go hungry, or feed your own family because you were wise enough to set aside an emergency store.

Now, don't get me wrong, anybody with a heart is not going to let the neighbors starve...but I sure am not going to feed them at the expense of my own children. Perhaps others may see this differently, but this is how I see it. Consider, if I had not first been wise enough to set an emergency store aside to begin with, nobody would be eating. If all of us were reliant on the government to rescue us...we would all be seriously malnourished (or starved to death) before help arrived. In other words, the blame is not on me for selfishly having food and not sharing...if I had not had food and thought like the neighbors thought, nobody would be eating.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Dondi

It's not that the five wise virgin don't want to share, it's just that we cannot "save" another person, only God can do this. If I could save everyone I met, I would gladly do so.

The Holy Spirit brings life to a soul. The foolish virgins might have had life initially (God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul), but our spirit cannot sustain itself. We must remain in communion with the One who give us life, which is something the wise virgins did and the folish virgins failed to do..

Yep!

[Prober]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Now, don't get me wrong, anybody with a heart is not going to let the neighbors starve...but I sure am not going to feed them at the expense of my own children.

I understand the analogy. What about...

"And she said, [As] the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I [am] gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go [and] do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring [it] unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.

For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day [that] the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.

And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat [many] days.

[And] the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah."

1 Kings 17:12-16
(Source: www.godrules.net)

You could share and trust.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Prober!

Originally Posted by Prober

You could share and trust.

Yes, I could. Having a heart, I probably would, up to the point it started taking from my children. I can do without. I want to believe any parent worth the title would do without. The reality is that probably the children would be taken care of at the expense of the adults, otherwise we might end up no longer friends.

I do think it is important to note, the odds against my neighbor being a prophet of G-d on a calibur with Elijah is pretty astronomical. I am also a firm believer that the Good Lord helps those who help themselves. Consider, the widow and her son were preparing to die, they were not looking for rescue. All the more ironic that Elijah happened along.

A little trust and prayer sure can't hurt in such a situation. A little common sense can't hurt either.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Prober

I understand the analogy. What about...

"And she said, [As] the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I [am] gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go [and] do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring [it] unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.

For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day [that] the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.

And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat [many] days.

[And] the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah."

1 Kings 17:12-16
(Source: www.godrules.net)

You could share and trust.

I was actually going to get into this passage, but you beat me to it, Prober.

So since we're here, here's my take.

Like I said before, God breathed His spirit in man. In this case, the little oil that the widow had represents her spirit, but God through Elijah was able to increase her spirit, through the Spirit of God. The moral here is that it doesn't matter what you have as long as it is available for God's use (think mustard seed faith, feeding of the 5000). God will operate within the one who is willing to be used by Him. Don't quench the Spirit of God.

[wil]

I'd like to respond...but I gotta go buy oil, food, water, fuel, and some other emergency stuff...

Mormon's are told by the church to have enough for a year...I wonder if there is a shopping list someplace....

Homeland security says 3 days water and food should be on hand in each household...

[InLove]

Do those OT passages have anything to do with the "Hannukah Oil"?

InPeace,
InLove