The Nephilim Race

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

These wicked angels were not thrown into a literal place called Tartarus. Rather, Tartarus, which is mistranslated "hell" in some Bibles, refers to the abased or fallen condition of these angels. They were cut off from the spiritual light of God’s organization, and they have only everlasting destruction awaiting them. (James 2:19; Jude 6) Since the time of the Flood, God has not permitted these demon angels to take on fleshly bodies, so they cannot directly satisfy their unnatural sexual desires. Yet they can still exercise dangerous power over men and women. In fact, with the help of these demons Satan is "misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Revelation 12:9) The great increase today in sexual crimes, violence and other wrongdoing shows our need to be on guard against being misled by them.

According to the OT, the original Nephilim, are dead, never to rise again, not even on judgement day. This leads me to think that these "beings" hybrid of man and angel had no imortal spirit. Their time was when they were walking the earth as physical beings. Not like they provided any kindness or humane behavior to begin with, however, I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time)

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Q

[Bull's Eye]

Hello All! I'm new to this forum, and know I am going to be enjoying it emensley (sp?)

How many of you out there have heard of Zacharia Sitchin?

He has a series of books called The Earth Chronicles, and I've read The 12th Planet. The Nephilim is a subject of great import in supporting his beleifs in an alien race being responsible for our existance. He relies on ancient Mesopotamian texts, and the OT, and makes some very interesting connections with modern science. If anyone looks into these sources I would suggest googling opposing oppinion. True or not it really makes one think. I place my stakes on scholars, and I've read both supporting arguments and opposing arguments from those who claim scholarly rite. It's worth looking into if not soley for the angle of understanding the modern take on ancient legends.

[I, Brian]

Sitchin gets something of a kicking for his ideas:

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/
http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk/siren.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corr...8/zclaims.html

Sitchin seems to provide a personal reinvention of various stories.

[Bandit]

i do not see how it is possible for anyone to make an absolute conclusion on this.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Sitchin gets something of a kicking for his ideas:

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/
http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk/siren.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corr...8/zclaims.html

Sitchin seems to provide a personal reinvention of various stories.

I just spent the last eight or so hours reading what ever I could find on Chariots of the Gods, extraterrestrial astronauts and Nephilim, from scientific to secular to amateur to religious perspectives, and I must admit, I have more questions than answers and more questions than I ever had before on the issue. Alot of food for thought.

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[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

According to the OT, the original Nephilim, are dead, never to rise again, not even on judgement day. This leads me to think that these "beings" hybrid of man and angel had no imortal spirit. Their time was when they were walking the earth as physical beings. Not like they provided any kindness or humane behavior to begin with, however, I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time)

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Q

yes, the offspring (Nephilim)of the wicked angels are dead,but the wicked angels who came down and mated with humans are inTatarus

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

yes, the offspring (Nephilim)of the wicked angels are dead,but the wicked angels who came down and mated with humans are inTatarus

True, the bodies of the Nephilim are dead and dust, but I've been reading that the "demons" we speak of, are the "spirits" of the dead Nephilim, that cannot go to heaven and can't go to hell, yet. Demons I read are not Devils, or Satans. They are the prodgeny of such fallen ones. Sometimes they are called "legion". Other times some are called Amadusus (sp). This goes in line with the "powers and principalities of the air", battling over Mankind verbage, in scripture. I've also read that some Nephilim escaped and are allegedly at the extreme corners of the "heavens". And finally, that some Nephilim will appear (or are already here), in end times. This is really fascinating stuff!

What amazes me is that a race of beings (fallen angels), who so hate humans (talk about bigotry), would mate with them in the first place...except in an attempt to place their lineage back at a level higher than man in the order of the Universe.

I also understand the verse about the feet of the "statue" being made of iron and clay, as well as the wheat and tares, parable. Then there is the dual meaning of the verses pertaining to the serpent striking at the heal of woman, while she strikes the serpent's head.

Two distinct seeds. That of Eve (man), and that of the Satan's (Nephilim).

Again...fascinating stuff to ponder.

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[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

Two distinct seeds. That of Eve (man), and that of the Satan's (Nephilim).

So very close. Two distinct seeds, that of ha-Adam, and that of Satan, both through Eve. Able and Cain. Adam lives on through Seth. Satan lives on through Cain. To look at them side by side there is no discernable difference (just another "race"), because their genetics are so very close.

How much of the story is mythos?, to explain reality? Did God plant a seed here, by some form we might be inclined to call extra-terrestrial visitation? If Satan holds a role more like that the Jews portray as adversary, then is the progeny of Cain merely serving a purpose in accord with God's plan? And what of the pre-historic humans? What role do they play? How often does God visit, and for how long? Or is He always here? How often does He "interfere" with how things unfold? Why does He continue to allow evil to exist?

How much can we begin to understand without overloading our circuits?

[Rouge47]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

True, the bodies of the Nephilim are dead and dust, but I've been reading that the "demons" we speak of, are the "spirits" of the dead Nephilim, that cannot go to heaven and can't go to hell, yet.

You are exactly right. I haven't logged on in a while. When I came back today I noticed so many new posts. Quahom1 is correct. Only the spirits of the Nephilim exist, the bodies are gone (thank goodness).

[stevemb88]

Originally Posted by Paul James

You are exactly right. I haven't logged on in a while. When I came back today I noticed so many new posts. Quahom1 is correct. Only the spirits of the Nephilim exist, the bodies are gone (thank goodness).

Man that must really suck being born into a race that can't go to heaven or hell, man just think... that means that Satan doesn't want you, thats gotta be hard on the self-esteem!

[Nogodnomasters]

The Nephilim were added to the story of Noah to justify YHWH's destruction of the earth. I would contend they were not in the original text. The word is from the Chaldean word for the constellation of Orion which is Niphla which means "the mighty." In Hebrew lore one of the fallen angels Shemhazai hangs upside down in the constellation of Orion. This would connect the Nephilim to the constellation of Orion. My personal views and reasearch indicates Nimrod was represented by the constellation of Orion also and well as the violated Noah, and Herod of the NT.

The violated or castrated Noah from the tent scene most likely was the original tale representing Orion. The rest were added due to syncretism.

[Quahom1]

It is generally agreed that the flood, occured circa 2342 BC, and that Noah was around 600 years old at the time.

The first books of the Hebrew scriptures were penned circa 1400 BC, which is about 800 years before the arrival of the Chaldeans. The Hebrews would have had no need nor reason to use a younger nation's language to add to their own in order to describe their views and holy histories and lore (David had already written Psalms. Proverbs were in place. Solomon had been dead for 100 years). In fact the opposite happened. The Assyrians who settled in the Northern kingdom of Israel eventually took on the Torah and the Hebrew God as their own (they are called Samaritans). When the Babylonians invaded Israel and then Judah, the exile began, but Babylon could not keep Judah, which became a puppet state to Egypt. If anything there would be more Egyptian influence in scriptures, than the short lived Chaldeans.

From my research on ancient astroglies and prophecies, I know of the Chaldean word Niphla. However it is not used to describe mightly men of renown, or Nephilim (which in Hebrew means "those who have fallen").

In fact the word Niphla is a descriptor for someone else...

"The picture presents us with "the Light of the world." His left foot is significantly placed upon the head of the enemy. He is girded with a glorious girdle, studded with three brilliant stars; and upon this girdle is hung a sharp sword. Its handle proves that this mighty Prince is come forth in a new character. He is again proved to be "the Lamb that was slain," for the hilt of this sword is in the form of the head and body of a lamb. In his right hand he lifts on high his mighty club; while in his left he holds forth the token of his victory--the head and skin of the "roaring lion." We ask in wonder, "Who is this?" and the names of the stars give us the answer.

Al Rai, who bruises, who breaks (as in Cepheus); and Thabit (Hebrew), treading on.
Other (Arabic) names relate to His Person: Al Giauza, the branch; Al Gebor, the mighty; Al Mirzam, the ruler; Al Nagjed, the prince; Niphla (Chaldee), the mighty; Nux (Hebrew), the strong. Some names relate to His coming, as Betelgeuse and Bellatrix, as above; Heka (Chaldee), coming; and Meissa (Hebrew), coming forth.

Such is the cumulative testimony of Orion's stars, which, day after day, and night after night, show forth this knowledge. That testimony was afterwards written in the Book. The Prince of Glory, who was once wounded for the sins of His redeemed, is about to rise up and shine forth for their deliverance. Their redemption draweth nigh; for--

"The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man,

He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war;
He shall cry, yea, roar;
He shall prevail against His enemies.
I have [He says] long time holden my peace;
I have been still, and refrained myself:
Now will I cry like a travailing woman;
I will destroy and devour at once."
Isaiah 42:13, 14


Niphla describes the coming of the redeemer.

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Q

[Nogodnomasters]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It is generally agreed that the flood, occured circa 2342 BC, and that Noah was around 600 years old at the time.

The first books of the Hebrew scriptures were penned circa 1400 BC, which is about 800 years before the arrival of the Chaldeans. The Hebrews would have had no need nor reason to use a younger nation's language to add to their own in order to describe their views and holy histories and lore (David had already written Psalms. Proverbs were in place. Solomon had been dead for 100 years). In fact the opposite happened. The Assyrians who settled in the Northern kingdom of Israel eventually took on the Torah and the Hebrew God as their own (they are called Samaritans). When the Babylonians invaded Israel and then Judah, the exile began, but Babylon could not keep Judah, which became a puppet state to Egypt. If anything there would be more Egyptian influence in scriptures, than the short lived Chaldeans.

From my research on ancient astroglies and prophecies, I know of the Chaldean word Niphla. However it is not used to describe mightly men of renown, or Nephilim (which in Hebrew means "those who have fallen").

In fact the word Niphla is a descriptor for someone else...

"The picture presents us with "the Light of the world." His left foot is significantly placed upon the head of the enemy. He is girded with a glorious girdle, studded with three brilliant stars; and upon this girdle is hung a sharp sword. Its handle proves that this mighty Prince is come forth in a new character. He is again proved to be "the Lamb that was slain," for the hilt of this sword is in the form of the head and body of a lamb. In his right hand he lifts on high his mighty club; while in his left he holds forth the token of his victory--the head and skin of the "roaring lion." We ask in wonder, "Who is this?" and the names of the stars give us the answer.

Al Rai, who bruises, who breaks (as in Cepheus); and Thabit (Hebrew), treading on.
Other (Arabic) names relate to His Person: Al Giauza, the branch; Al Gebor, the mighty; Al Mirzam, the ruler; Al Nagjed, the prince; Niphla (Chaldee), the mighty; Nux (Hebrew), the strong. Some names relate to His coming, as Betelgeuse and Bellatrix, as above; Heka (Chaldee), coming; and Meissa (Hebrew), coming forth.

Such is the cumulative testimony of Orion's stars, which, day after day, and night after night, show forth this knowledge. That testimony was afterwards written in the Book. The Prince of Glory, who was once wounded for the sins of His redeemed, is about to rise up and shine forth for their deliverance. Their redemption draweth nigh; for--

"The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man,

He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war;
He shall cry, yea, roar;
He shall prevail against His enemies.
I have [He says] long time holden my peace;
I have been still, and refrained myself:
Now will I cry like a travailing woman;
I will destroy and devour at once."
Isaiah 42:13, 14


Niphla describes the coming of the redeemer.

v/r

Q

My theory claims the original text came EB III and that the Bible was a living document. No one agrees Noah was real and lived 600 years and there was a flood. Astral theology changes from OT to NT in the Bible due to Greek syncretism. The basic ideas of Bullinger (who you quote without credit), whose definitions are questionable, don't apply as he does not deal with anachronisms. What he does is to take the actual Arab names for the stars and translate their meaning to the nearest Hebrew word. This is poor scholarship. The three stars in the belt in the NT are the wise men who follow Sirius (star of the East) across the sky.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

My theory claims the original text came EB III and that the Bible was a living document. No one agrees Noah was real and lived 600 years and there was a flood. Astral theology changes from OT to NT in the Bible due to Greek syncretism. The basic ideas of Bullinger (who you quote without credit), whose definitions are questionable, don't apply as he does not deal with anachronisms. What he does is to take the actual Arab names for the stars and translate their meaning to the nearest Hebrew word. This is poor scholarship. The three stars in the belt in the NT are the wise men who follow Sirius (star of the East) across the sky.

I quoted him (as in put quotes around his words). Enough said. Then no one agrees that Noah was castrated either, thus the founding of the story of the Nephilim in the cave can not be agree upon either...Second of all it is fact that Nephilim is a Hebrew word, not a variation of a Chaldean word as you presume. I'm afraid your theory is as full of holes as mine is. However attacking me does no good.

You presented a point, and I presented a counter-point.

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[Rouge47]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I quoted him (as in put quotes around his words). Enough said. Then no one agrees that Noah was castrated either, thus the founding of the story of the Nephilim in the cave can not be agree upon either...Second of all it is fact that Nephilim is a Hebrew word, not a variation of a Chaldean word as you presume. I'm afraid your theory is as full of holes as mine is. However attacking me does no good.

You presented a point, and I presented a counter-point.

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Q

I love debates! Did I mention im on the debate team in school. Representing points and counter-points is a thing I had to learn how to do. Hebrew or not (I have no opinion on that) there are still many pieces of the puzzle missing.

God Bless
Paul