The Multi-verse Theory

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello, My two cents on this subject.
We live in a 15 dimensional Time Matrix (a hologram). Time and space in reality do not exist. Past present and future are all happening at one time in one single spot. A dimension is a frequency band and the dimensions are grouped together in sets of three (string theroy) called Harmonic Universes. We live in the first Harmonic Universe made up of Dimensions 1, 2 and 3. Each dimension is seperated by a 90 degree shift in angular rotation of particle spin and each Harmonic Universe is seperated by a reverse 45 degree shift in angular rotation of particle spin. The easiest way to understand this is to think about a radio and all of the stations. They all exist within one radio but you can't hear them unless you tune into the proper frequency.
All that exists is energy and energy is conscious, Consciousness creates different reality fields in which to experience its thoughts.
Midge

11 dimensions are recognised scientifically...15? based on what? I'm just curious. and I read what you posted. Again, I ask, based on what? string theory is not harmonic. (for example). Doppelor shifts are not frequency shifts, but rather ghost images, of what exists, in real time.

Please expound.

v/r

Q

[Marietta]

Hello Quahom, Nice to have this opertunity to share ideas.

You wrote:
>>11 dimensions are recognised scientifically...15? based on what? I'm just curious. and I read what you posted. Again, I ask, based on what? string theory is not harmonic. (for example). Doppelor shifts are not frequency shifts, but rather ghost images, of what exists, in real time. <<


My reply:
I base my 15 dimensional structure of our time matrix on Keylontic Science.
Some have theorized ten some eleven and some as many as twenty one. Why do you say that string theroy is not harmonic? In string theroy it is suggested that the dimensions (frequency bands) curled up tightly together which caused what is called a harmonic universe.
Doppler Shifts are the apparent change in frequency and wavelength of a wave that is perceived by an observer moving relative to the source of the waves. Dimensions are frequency bands. The higher the dimension the lower its vibration and the higher its osculation. Vibration is contraction and osculation is expansion of energy.

Midge

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello Quahom, Nice to have this opertunity to share ideas.

You wrote:
>>11 dimensions are recognised scientifically...15? based on what? I'm just curious. and I read what you posted. Again, I ask, based on what? string theory is not harmonic. (for example). Doppelor shifts are not frequency shifts, but rather ghost images, of what exists, in real time. <<


My reply:
I base my 15 dimensional structure of our time matrix on Keylontic Science.
Some have theorized ten some eleven and some as many as twenty one. Why do you say that string theroy is not harmonic? In string theroy it is suggested that the dimensions (frequency bands) curled up tightly together which caused what is called a harmonic universe.
Doppler Shifts are the apparent change in frequency and wavelength of a wave that is perceived by an observer moving relative to the source of the waves. Dimensions are frequency bands. The higher the dimension the lower its vibration and the higher its osculation. Vibration is contraction and osculation is expansion of energy.

Midge

As stated. Thank you for your post. My turn?

A harmonic universe, has nothing to do with curled frequency bands, curled tightly together.

There is no harmony in a universe, let alone multiverse. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Dimesions are nothing about frequencies...(not from where I work).

There are three dimensions that are able to be presented physically, and one that is to be expressed in a semi-tangible way that is accepted by most people.

The first three are distances, while the fourth is 'time'. We can't even figure these four out totally, and you propose your 15 (we can't get our grip around 11 yet), on a science that doesn't exist? Your 'science' isn't proven, hence at best a hypothesis.

I like the thinking, but don't like the arrogance.

v/r

Q

What, is everyong else an idiot?

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There is no harmony in a universe, let alone multiverse. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation......we can't get our grip around 11 yet....I like the thinking, but don't like the arrogance. ....

just because harmony exists doesn't discount dischord as well...

if we can conceive 11 yet can't get a grip on it, tis perfectly possible the earth isn't flat and the stars on stuck on a punch bowl...

the mirror is a bitch....

[Marietta]

The subject of dimensions can be confusing for numerous reasons: 1) dimensions not only refer to anything to do with size, but also scope, and attributes; 2) they are fundamental to existence and anything more basic than our material level of observation is difficult to know about---our observing ability cannot step outside the dimensional framework at the human level; 3) dimensions are used as a mathematical and geometrical way of expressing higher space, 4) they are used (differently) with great freedom in the New-Age field, generally without having much idea what they mean, 5) the different methodology used between the academic system (point 3 above) and the New Age (point 4 above) in setting up dimensions can be confusing, 6) finally, dimensions not only frame spacetime but frame consciousness. This latter point is the aspect of dimensions we are interested in.
Firstly, it is important to note that academically there is only acceptance of a 3D external world---what we refer to as the material world. With this very limiting belief system, dimensions have reduced applications apart from expressing the structure of 3D, or provide a 'vehicle' for time (4D) and all the mathematical contrivances in the micro-dimensions of string theories. However, with a proper recognition of the nature of consciousness, which is grossly absent in current science, dimensions take on a whole new meaning---this is what we are interested in.
Most people might ask, why do we need dimensions? What's wrong with just an environment of one type of space? Science would give one answer to this and those that go beyond our materialistic science would give another. Nevertheless one should be familiar with the academic geometric method of defining dimensions before going further. This is covered briefly in the next paragraph.
An infinitesimally thin straight line gives us our first dimension. We can take this line and move it at right angles to itself and trace out a surface to obtain 2D. We then move this surface at right angles to each of its two dimensions, 1 and 2, to trace out 3D. We now have a volume or solid, say, a cube. This is as far as our perception will go, since we now have to imagine moving the cube (kind of expanding) at right angles to each of its three dimensions. (Note that when we say 2D or 3D we automatically include the lower ones within it---we might say third dimension but we are including two and one unless we specifically state the third-dimensional direction.) Now each higher dimension is infinity over each adjacent lower one---an infinite number of infinitesimally thin lines will fit into the surface, and an infinite number of infinitesimally thin surfaces will fit into a 3D structure, etc. Thus there are vast spatial increments in these geometric dimensions.
Now according to the scientific viewpoint, since we have a body and perception that are 3D oriented we can only operate in 3D space, and there is no awareness of different attributes of the dimensions relating to particular focusses of consciousness, which are expressed in frequencies. This is the current state of education---there is no additional richness to these dimensions.
Let us bridge the gap between this immensely limiting viewpoint and the real meaning of dimensions by indicating that some quantum physicists and others are moving quantum theory in the direction of the presence of a unified field of energy that is being referred to as all consciousness---minute units or particles, billions of times smaller than subatomic particles. In fact this unified field gives us a beginning for the more pertinent analysis of dimensions and their real meaning.
On the basis of the unified field of consciousness everything is the product of patterns of these consciousness units---the units cohere to form waves and the waves form structures. This means dimensions are structures of consciousness. Consciousness forms frameworks/dimensions for its own organisation and qualification. By creating different kinds of guide lines and formatting for itself it can explore its infinite potential. One might wish to imagine, as an analogy, placing a child in a wide open space and as a result there are too many degrees of freedom to choose from. We then impose 'blinkers' on the child's perception to select avenues to explore. This is what we do with the seeming infinity of consciousness. The dimensions can even be designed so that large limitations are imposed on consciousness, enabling it to explore evolutionary probabilities and play out the details. These arenas clearly contain space and time, but this system is quite different from the mathematical and inflexible academic method of dimensions.
Thus although consciousness (the unified field) is divided up in this manner and isolated linearly, it is nevertheless integrated with intrinsic configurations, nonlinearly. For example, using our standard model as an analogy, the company organisation, the groundfloor workers are apparently isolated (linearly) but through the managers, executives and president, they are integrated (nonlinearly). In effect, higher dimensions always embrace the lower ones.
Since these dimensions set a template for consciousness and consciousness' personalities, then the nature of this dimensional environment is to reflect back or mirror the personality. Thus the external mirrors the internal. Let us take a look at some of the characteristics of our dimensions.
Our present manifestation of consciousness is such that we perceive 3D structures and think in 3D. Although numerous dimensions are needed to explore consciousness they are nevertheless interdependent and interrelated, as stated above. The structure of 3D gives us stable forms by means of the principles of counteraction, polarities and standing waves. Moreover, the property (purpose) of 3D is to 'expand' out the inner-multidimensional and nonlinear aspects of consciousness into a spatial volume in which no two particles can occupy the same space. And along with a time component from 4D, 3D enables us to learn cause and effect; to have time, and focus, to observe consequences of actions; to perceive isolated details vividly.
This extreme property of separation in 3D works with the merging and unifying traits of 4D which can penetrate and integrate the third dimension and go beyond it. But the basic 3D gives separation of particles, out-of-phase energies and non-resonant frequencies. In particular it encourages opposites and the 'ability' not to perceive another's viewpoint or suffering. This rather severe characteristic is available for exploration if an individual's freewill selects it. Also these dimensions encourage understanding by means of logic (though 3D logic only). For this logical condition to dominate, the fifth dimension---and they are all interconnected---of mental and structural attributes provides the main cause for the 3D 'logical' approach but this is emphasised to the degree 4D may be bypassed (suppressing emotions, intuition and imagination). Our present educational system is moving us in this direction.
Note that one can't blame the dimensions: one tunes to the dimensional level corresponding to one's consciousness, which becomes one's reality. These dimensions are different frequency spectrums, ranging from low frequencies (rates of vibration of energies) to high, throughout each dimension and continuing into the next higher one. Higher frequencies mean higher rates of information. Frequency spectrums not only give us the whole field of radiant energy but also structures since everything is made up of patterns of frequencies (oscillating energy which when played against itself, forms standing waves and stable structures). The basic particles, as indicated by quantum physics, are continually blinking on and off. We see that this new physics system of presenting dimensions is not just quantitative but also qualitative.
Now within the third dimension we have dimensions 1 and 2. What part could they play? It is easy for the reader to lose the purpose of these steps here since one's mind will automatically keep reverting to the context of our already heavily-formatted consciousness. As an analogy, a consciousness that is moulded into the shape of an X can't have knowledge of that X since this condition is the basis by which other patterns within this are judged. For example, if the X was inside a sphere (representing consciousness) then the sphere can measure and know the cross relative to itself, the sphere. If consciousness is being a state (dramatising it, formatted by it) and this state is the basic one in its dimensions and existence, it can't observe it. This would also apply at the highest level---Source. To know itself it must project out its characteristics and separate them out to understand what it is. This is the important subject of open and closed systems.
As a consequence of this difficulty, let us risk a ludicrously simple and hugely limited analogy to bring the reader back to---if only in imagination---this fundamental format of consciousness (Source level) which hasn't yet got itself organised, so to speak. This state must be multidimensional and beyond spacetime and we shall simulate this with the idea of superimposing many colours (like mixing paint) so that each colour is spread throughout the whole. With paints, this would be a muddy brown; with the rainbow colours of light it would be white light.
We now imagine this Source of all colours, each colour uniformly distributed throughout the whole (Source), projects out individual colours, say, red is now focussed (from being merged with the whole) to a spot. In fact, one could imagine using a prism to split up the colours individually. We can now have patterns of different coloured spots, which have been separated out from Source, representing different phenomena. The idea is that this enables the Source to understand its nature---what its potential is.
Consciousness thus constructs dimensions/frameworks which then feed back and draw out of that consciousness its many potential attributes to be experienced----structurally requalifying the Source which is then forever becoming in this manner. (Note that dimensions have been distorted to trap humans in the lowest ranges.) To some degree, dimensions are personally rendered and form part of the individual's so-called hologram, giving their reality.
Returning to the evaluation of dimensions, we need dimensions 1 and 2 to provide smaller partitions within sequences for beginnings and endings; for cycles of activity structured from simple 'starts', 'changes', and 'stops'. Without cycles there can be no existence of our kind. Fundamental consciousness has no familiarity with sequence. Consciousness must be programmed to provide the steps to explore itself---and to provide a form of evolution or ascension.
Now whereas the frequencies (energies) of the first three dimensions together encourage polarity, separation and ego, the fourth dimension provides a frequency spectrum for emotions, which are more holistic. The fourth dimension emphasises unity, bringing together the separate parts, and creating a continuous flowing condition, enabling the energies to smoothly flow through the dimensions. In this more 4D condition, the cycles of action of dimensions 1 and 2 played out in 3D will complete more easily without stuck flows and without areas of energy hung up in time.
As we ascend into (focus on) the 4D frequency bands, physical movement becomes easier. We learn how to use the energy field system around the joints rather than applying excessive muscular effort (see articles on mobility and fractal matrix, etc.). There is a removal of mental blocks and an expansion of imagination---right-brain consciousness begins to assert itself. One can project consciousness into all points of view simultaneously, preventing all conflict, opposites can now be reconciled and a greater balance is achieved in body, mind and spirit.
The fifth dimension relates to the mental attributes; is structural in nature but going beyond 3D structures. It will work with 4D to clarify and give control to the emotions, aiding the projection of emotions into higher intuitive states and knowingness beyond simple logic and objectivity, which only gives representational knowledge.
One will find that the considered total number of dimensions varies greatly from one source of knowledge to another. The renowned philosopher Ouspenski theorised that the number of dimensions of our universe was six, but note that this is the mathematical/academic system of purely quantitative spatial dimensions. In modern physics, string theories have 11 dimensions, however, these are minute dimensions of curled up micro-space and have no relationship with our above macro, qualitative dimensions. Some channellings refer to more than 20 dimensions and other sources up to 60 or so---these are the qualitative type. The most believable system is that given by the Guardian Alliance (ETs), that our full time/energy matrix has 15 dimensions---5 universes of 3 dimensions each, first harmonic universe has D1, D2, D3, second harmonic universe has D4, D5, D6, etc. and each dimension divides into 12 sub-frequencies. (Note the notation here: D1, D2, D3 indicate the separate dimensions but 3D embraces all three, etc.)
Now, we perceive 3D as solid but when focussed in higher dimensions these higher dimensions will also appear solid, though with greater flexibility, such as in teleportation capabilities. In fact as we go up the dimensions, as the frequencies increase and there is increase in integration and harmonic energies, the probabilities available for selection and experience becomes greater with accompanying greater range of perceptions. Space increases as with the academic system but because of the qualitative aspects it is more abstract, more part of the mind and consciousness and can be manipulated. There is greater freedom of choice, more variety and possibilities; the dimensional frameworks are less restrictive as the responsibility grows.

[flowperson]

Marietta:

My feeble eyes usually glaze over when anybody posts anything which contains more than four or five paragraphs. Maybe that's my dimensional limits also.

Are these your thoughts, or did you extract them from some other source ? If so I would like to know the author's identity. Since there are British spellings in the materials a UK origin might be suggested, but that, of course, would not rule out other commonwealth nations as an origin.

While I agree in principle with many of the speculations that you suggest as possibilities, the entire piece would have to be considered a speculation upon the nature of things and how they are organized in hidden ways.

As I explained earlier in another thread, speculations or proposed theories, which might include what you posted, always remain just that until tested and duplicated by others with like interests. Is there a mathematical set of constructs for what you wrote? If so who did the work ? There seem to be suggestions of thinking based upon the work of Hilbert or Riemann.

I haven't finished the Randall book yet, or reread the Talbott book on the Holographic Universe. Perhaps when I have done that I would be able to comment more knowledgeably upon your post, but in lieu of that, it would help to move matters along if you would share the source of your information with us if possible.

Oh...you might be interested to know that I believe that we were created and given the information and abilities to conceive of and access at least 26 dimensions in G-d's reality. Only time will tell....

thanks....flow....

[jiii]

Whew! I read through a good deal of the post, Marietta. The explanation of 'dimensions' does seem to make sense. The only downside I see is that the whole system of ideas is so unwieldy. You know, it's just that it uses somewhat complex concepts to talk about something scientifically that isn't really even proven.

I'm no physicist...that's for sure. From a mathematical point-of-view, maybe it makes a whole world of sense that is simply unavailable directly to someone that doesn't have that numeric processing power.

Personally, this 'scientific' rendering sounds, on many levels, to be akin to many alchemical texts. That is, it seems to create a kind of virtual system in which theoretical ideas can be explained not necessarily in terms of plain experience, but in terms of fixed assumptions. I don't say this to degrade physics whatsoever...much more rational consideration goes into physics, and that is not really arguable. I suppose it just seems to lay out a very complex portrait of reality that doesn't translate very well at all to the average persons ordinary experience.

-jiii

[Marietta]

Dear Flow, I'm sorry for the length of the post but I find it hard to condense my own thoughts and I felt that I would do a great injustice to the work of Dr. Noal Huntley by condensing what he had written so well.
What I posted is taken from the witting's of Dr. Noal Huntley who authored the following Books (along with others): "The Hidden Variables of Piano Technique" and "The Attainment of Superior Physical Abilities and New Science of Body Motion" along with others.

As with all things there are a set of mathematical constructs for what I have proposed.
Marietta

[Marietta]

Hello jiii, I agree with you however according to the alchemical text the thought of other dimensions is something to be experienced not merely contemplated.
What is a thought? Isn't it our thoughts that create our reality? Isn't all that exists energy/consciousness?
Marietta

[Marietta]

Dimension (Frequency Band)
Dimensions are fixed groupings of energy within a specific, geometrically arranged form, build upon crystallized, conscious units, of sound and light called Morphogenetic Field(MF) or Manifestation Template.

From each MF’s of Dimensions are composed of stationary points of the vibration of sound and light which together form a fabric of tones, into which smaller MFs are woven

From each fixed point of sound vibration, within each Dimension of MF, an electrical current of consciousness emerges.

Cosmic morphogenetic structure is ordered into sets of systems, each one comprising 15 dimensions and referred to as a "15 dimensional matrices" grouped in sets of 3, forming a morphogenetic blueprint of five, 3 dimensional reality systems, in each dimensional matrix. Each reality system is called a Harmonic Universe (HU).

A Dimesionis a full Frequency Band or repeated sequence of "flashing on and off" of scalar standing-wave points within a morphogenetic field.

A Planet moves form one dimensional frequency bands to the next, and form one Time continuumto the next, by magnetically drawing into its morphogenetic field, particles from the Unified Field of energy for each dimension.

When a planet has pulled in all the frequency bands of one dimension into its morphogenetic field, it then moves upward into the next dimensional field to complete the same process.

Each of the 15 rhythms of Partiki Phasing creates one Dimension.

A Dimension is a set pattern of "Flash Line Sequences", or a singular Partidi Phasingrhythms that contains within it 12 smaller rhythms of Partiki Phasing.

Each Dimension represents one Scalar Frequency Band containing 12 smaller Sub-frequency Bands.

To create the Universal Manifestation Template (Morphogenetic Field- MF) upon which external space, time and matter experience can be known, Dimensions are ordered in sets of 15, forming the blueprint for a 15-Dimensional Time Matrix.

A Dimension represents a full Frequency Band, or repeating, cyclic sequence of "flashing on and off" scalar-wavepoints within a morphogenetic field.

The morphogenetic field scalar grid structure of dimensions takes the form of sets of 15-Dimensional Matrices, grouped in sets of 3 dimensions each, forming 5 sets of 3-dimensinal Reality Fields called Harmonic Universes.

The 15-Dimensions composing 5 Harmonic Universes together represent one Time Matrix system.

Each Dimension of frequency is composed of 12 Sub-frequency bands, or shorter cycles of the "flashing on and off" of scalar-wave points, which exist as part of the longer cycle of the full Dimensional Frequency Band.

Particles having varying vibratory-oscillation rates and angles of spin Angular Rotation of Particle Spin- ARPS) allow multiple dimensional reality fields to coexist within the same space while remaining perceptually invisible to each other.

The relationship between wave strata within the dimensional frequency bands create the holographic refraction of light, sound and scalar waves that allows consciousness to perceive the illusions of matter solidity, space, time and externalization of reality while it is ensconced within the structures of dimensionalization.

[Quahom1]

A dimension, is a unit of measurment depicting distance in one or more directions. The concept is not fettered by macro or micro principals. It can also be used as a coordinate for a particular point in time and space. It can also be used to describe a physical property, and finally a level of reality.

In short it describes the depth, distance or property or focal point. Dimension is a fixed concept, indicating a perspective both real or imaginary.

What a dimension is NOT, is a frequency of any sort. Frequency is a constant or continuous concept. It defines the sine, co-sine and tangent of energies. It is not physical, but rather defines the movement of the physical. Frequency applies only to energy influencing our existence.

Case in point: There are two of me standing side by side. both exactly the same. So we both share common dimensions. But we can't see eachother, nor interact with eachother, indeed we can walk right through each other, because we are unaware physically, mentally that the other exists. Why?

We each are operating on a different frequency, from the other. Same dimensional existence, but operating on different time variances. Not a different dimension, but rather a different plane based on frequency differentiations. We're out of phase energy wise from each other.

Even a common computer must adhere to this standard. Two Identical computers. One is in the US, and the other is in Australia. AC current is the main power supply for both (which convert internally into the standard 12vdc 3 amp form of energy). So both require the same type energy to function...ah, but here is the tricky part...

The outside power source that energizes both computers must be compatible for each computer to work. So, in the US, the power source being 120 vAC @ 60 MHZ, must be compatible with the computer's energy requirements and conversion capacity. If one took the identical computer from Australia and tried to plug it into the local power grid in the US, nothing would happen, or worse, the computer might fry.

Same goes for the identical US computer being brought to Austrailia. Trying to plug it into a 240 vac @ 50 MHZ, would definitely fry the computer.

Are both computers in the same dimensional space? Of course they are, but their energy frequencies are different...hence they are not of the same "world".

I suspect, that the reason we do not see alternate universes, is not because of dimesional differences, but rather, frequency differences that apply to the dimensions. If for example, my doppleganger and I were to switch places, neither would survive long in the others' place of home. Quite simply, being out of phase would shut us both down.

Now, I do know that electrical equipment is built today to tolerate phase variances in the energy required to operate (to a point). And that there is some margine for "overlap".

Hence the possibility of our perception of a "ghost" of ourselves, or our reality in our lives, but we can't hang on to that "etherworld" for long, and are usually exhausted after the experience (gee, wonder why?)

just my thou/thou/thoughts...

v/r

Q

[jiii]

Originally Posted by Marietta

Hello jiii, I agree with you however according to the alchemical text the thought of other dimensions is something to be experienced not merely contemplated.

Alechmical texts are certainly intended to be experienced, as you say. However, using an alchemical text such as, say, The Secret of the Golden Flower (T'ai I Chin Hua Tsung Chih), one should not expect that an actual golden flower will manifest in their mind. That would be a terribly literal interpretation that misses the point entirely. The text clearly does not expect that actual golden flowers have a single thing to do with the experience to which it alludes.

What I'm saying, is that speaking in 'dimensions' has a very literal ring to it, you know. Almost as if one is expected not to understand their ordinary experience symbolically through it, but that they are expected to truly believe it in the most literal sense. Whether or not this is actually the case, I don't know. I'm merely elucidating my earlier post in response to your question.

Originally Posted by Marietta

What is a thought? Isn't it our thoughts that create our reality? Isn't all that exists energy/consciousness?
Marietta

Well, I guess it depends on one's definition of reality. I, personally, do not think that our thoughts create our reality, though they certainly do give us innumerable ways to describe it, and in that, they are at least part and parcel to reality. But no, I don't believe our thoughts create reality. Otherwise, when we aren't thinking, there is no reality. In a sense, this isn't to far off the mark. However, I'm not to keen on restricting 'reality' to the world of ideas...that can be dangerous

Isn't energy and consciousness all that exists? Sure, in a sense. I don't really see energy and consciousness as particularly exact cognates, though. Again, I suppose it depends on what one calls 'consciousness'.

-jiii

[Marietta]

Hello Q, You have laid a ground frame from which we can proceed. We agree that this third dimension has width, length and hight. But what makes this object that appears to be solid with the characteristics of depth, length and high? How is a dimension created?
Marietta

[Marietta]

Hello jiii,
I'm not familiar with the Secret of the Golden Flower but from my personal experience and studies the text are alagories that tell of deeper literal experiences that we are able to literally perform or transform.. I know not believe that it is possible to both create a flower in my mind as well as manifest it in my 3 D reality. The alchemical text are not intended as a means of merely thought but experience and experience in a literal sense.

We are here in this existence to experience it and our experience has everything to do with dimension. However in reality (or truth) nothing exists except energy which is conscious.
What I mean by reality is this existence we are living through or within. Science knows that if there is nothing thinking about this that it doesn't exist. It was found when debating over weather an electron is a particle or a wave, one experiment proved that it is a particle and another proved that it is a wave and the third proved that it only takes on the form of a particle when viewed (or thought about).
Marietta

[flowperson]

Thanks Marietta...wonderful thoughts guys. I just knew in my bones that this was probably going to all boil down to musical patterning. Geneticists have been seeing suggestions for that sort of thing for years. Looks like the Pythagoreans were way ahead of their time... or is it that we're way behind of our time...D'oh !

flow....