the most perfect way to live.

[paul]

what is the most perfect way to live?

is it not more perfect that we give up all needless worldly things and seek more to live in a love that is beneficial to all?

gold and jewels seem to be in all religions usually in a place of worship, they are even of nature, but what good is of them?

is it not better to worship in more simple places, and be more concerned with helping others than decorating a building, even if it's out of respect to God, no gold or jewels serve God, the same as no sacrfice of animals is anything to Him, for what need as He of food or gold, these are of this world.
If we sacrfice of our worldly wealth, to help others, of a pure heart, then isn't this the sacrfice God seeks.
for what was animal sacrfice or of the first fruits - harvest, for was it not giving the best of their possesions, and not to be given to God as if He had need, but to be shared with others, for Abel gave the best of his lambs, and who would have benefited from this, for the animal would have been burnt, then what happened after it being offered to God, God did not eat it, but it would have been shared with his brother, probably even his family.

We all need food, and i can see the point of a feast in love, sharing with one another, family and neighbours, and that's all good if there are none in need, but if there are some in need in our neighbourhood, then should we not see to them first before feasting, or have the feast for them?

And as it talked of in the Bible in Acts:

Acts 4:31

And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness.
Acts 4:32 And the heart and soul of the multitude of those that had believed were one, and not one said that anything of what he possessed was his own, but all things were common to them;
Acts 4:33 and with great power did the apostles give witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 4:34

For neither was there any one in want among them; for as many as were owners of lands or houses, selling them, brought the price of what was sold

Acts 4:35

and laid it at the feet of the apostles; and distribution was made to each according as any one might have need.

Wouldn't it be beautiful if we lived by this Spirit today?

Surely we should treat others with kindness, live out of love and compasssion.
I only really know of the Christian religion, and don't know a great lot.

But what is the true teaching of other religions on these things and more, to do with this love and Spirit, and do they match up to this taught of the Christian religion?

[wil]

I think Ghandi had it right with 'Be the change you wish to see in the world'

We all have our interpretations of how one should live...and what we need to do is live it, not worry about what others are doing...but live our lives the way we see fit.

If your way works...others will follow suit, they will want to know how you are receiving your bliss and inquire...

Jesus taught us to love and forgive...

Zen teaches us mindfulness...

Buddha freedom from suffering...selflessness..

I've contemplated the non-material experience v. conspicous consumption at opposite ends of the spectrum...and think we were put on this planet as you said with all the gold and jewels...and maybe some of them are here to tempt us, to allow us to explore greed and envy...or maybe they and we are here to enjoy each other on a more balanced level...who knows...

we just need to find what suits us....and be the change...

[Dondi]

Riches are merely a tool. How we use this tool will determine the return of investment. If all we wish to do is please ourselves in basking in our riches, then we will never be satisfied, for God made us love one another. If we let greed control us, then we will be selfish, shallow creatures. But on the other hand, if we learn to give our abundance to those in need, then we will reap the satisfactions our heart yearns for.

[China Cat Sunflower]

The Almighty has not seen fit to burden me with riches! I'm not poor, but I have been, and let me tell you: being poor sucks. It's nice to have your own stuff that you don't have to share with everyone, too. I have this little dream of a simpler life, but my wife will never go for it!

Chris

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

The Almighty has not seen fit to burden me with riches! I'm not poor, but I have been, and let me tell you: being poor sucks. It's nice to have your own stuff that you don't have to share with everyone, too. I have this little dream of a simpler life, but my wife will never go for it!

Chris

Amen....

"money doesn't buy happiness" Whoever said that, clearly had no money.

Indeed as you say it is good to own things... And have that "freedom" from finanical stress.

I likethe feeling where you can go into a store, and buy whatever you want... There is no glass ceiling... Good stuff. You like it? Then get it...

This is my way of life.. and it IS perfect. I live by no rules of some diety that cannot proove himself to me. I don't dedicate myself to anything but myself and whatever I feel like putting time on... To live with freedom is perfect for me.

[earl]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Amen....

"money doesn't buy happiness" Whoever said that, clearly had no money.

Indeed as you say it is good to own things... And have that "freedom" from finanical stress.

I likethe feeling where you can go into a store, and buy whatever you want... There is no glass ceiling... Good stuff. You like it? Then get it...

This is my way of life.. and it IS perfect. I live by no rules of some diety that cannot proove himself to me. I don't dedicate myself to anything but myself and whatever I feel like putting time on... To live with freedom is perfect for me.

Perhaps then the triggering element to religious inquiry and/or spirituality is disappointment. earl

[Nattering Nabob]

Well I for one have tried to live my life for others...and in doing so I found that, just as all religion tells us, this is the pathway to what we are seeking. I also found that I am unable to continue performing these acts of selflessness because I am not ready to forgo my own interests yet. This is a sad fact that I learned about myself...I am selfish. I don't mean that I would begrudge a poor man a few dollars but I mean that I cannot completely give up my self-interests...somewhere along the line my ego asserts itself and just like an ex-smoker who thinks he can have just one cigarette and then finds himself smoking a pack a day again, I am suddenly my old self: living soley for me.

Selflessness will come of it's own volition. Untill then, pray for me.

Such is the journey of life.

[bananabrain]

gold and jewels seem to be in all religions usually in a place of worship, they are even of nature, but what good is of them?

erm - i think i'd take issue with this statement as it is way too much of a generalisation. in my experience christians tend to have jobs. in fact, i seem to remember something called a "protestant work ethic" (not that catholics or eastern-orthodox, copts and the likes don't work) - either way, i think i've made my point. perhaps a better and more realistic way of putting it might be to examine the mishnaic maxim:

"without bread, there is no Torah. without Torah, there is no bread."

pirkei avot

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Virtual_Cliff]

I don't think it is a case of renouncing money or renouncing God. It is a question of what you put first.

Most "westerners", IMHO, when it comes to the crunch, believe in money. That is, they take care of their house, their job, their car, their leisure etc, and then see what's left for God. That is their mistake. When the goods go down the tubes, so does their whole life.

I have just been TRYING to put God first and living with less, and it's hard. In fact not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty about it. I know there are others, Franciscans for example, or the Little Brothers of Nazareth (IIRC) who literally give up everything to follow their calling. These people have my deep respect. I don't have that much faith.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Virtual_Cliff

I have just been TRYING to put God first and living with less, and it's hard. In fact not a day goes by that I don't feel guilty about it. I know there are others, Franciscans for example, or the Little Brothers of Nazareth (IIRC) who literally give up everything to follow their calling. These people have my deep respect. I don't have that much faith.

I don't think it is really required that you live on less, that you give up the house or the car...quite the opposite actually.

To me it is a matter as you indicated of what you put first, and what you consider the source of your supply. Now if we do put our homes, our cars, our flat screens first then if your spiritual bent says that is wrong that is a problem. However if you put G-d first and own a lot of stuff, but if it were gone tommorow would not be in total turmoil...well I think you may have it together.

Losing a house you lived in for 20 years is a trip. Going thru forclosure sale and eviction and losing your equity is quite the thing. But doing it and seeing that it is not your source of happiness, it is not your source of comfort and that losing it all you can live as the source of all is there....more lessons than I know of in there. When you can watch that many zero's go down the drain, you can realize that owning things is temporary at best, and that there is no problem in owning, there is a problem when they own you.

As for the monks, it appears to me that would be quite the endeavor. Yes you are giving up some things, but gaining so much more. When I had no money, living in the woods or the mangroves, on the beach or the road...the freedom, and the connection with source was never stronger. The bliss I felt was incredible. The oneness with humanity, I never spent a day in a shelter, never got a plate from a soup kitchen, but I existed, contently in numerous cities and states, all on the largess of source and the compassion of my fellow man. I often thought how incredible it would be to decide to become a monk, and spend a life in study and prayer and service. That vs. mortgages, insurance, carpayments, credit card bills, utility bills, taxes, the entire gamut of the material life...I can see that being an interesting exchange.

[chakraman]

hi wil
your post reminded me of when i was travelling - in another country no money, no home, no nothing. i had no things to get worried about. it could nave been seen as desperate, but actually it was very liberating. and food, shelter and eventually work etc just fell in to my lap. as for giving up material to gain spirit, i dont think its possible. the ascetic may say he renounces the world but does he? he still has his sacred books, his prayers his guru, he gives up material to gain spirit which is no renunciation at all but further accumulation. it may sound more noble but essentially its the same. one man loses himself in alcohol, another in football and another in religion to me there all escapes from the self, j...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by chakraman

no nothing.

There is always nothing. There is a copious abundance of nothing...

[Nattering Nabob]

to me there all escapes from the self,

Aren't you the Krishnamurti fan? If I'm not mistaken that is one of his ideas also. I agree that hedonism is an escape from ourselves. We flee from solitude and into the arms of alcohol, TV, food, video games, books, etc... The worst punishment that we can think of to inflict on an incorrigable prisoner is solitary confinement with no distraction...we literally sentence them to be alone with themselves without distraction.

The Kingdom of Heaven is indeed within us and we run as fast as possible away from it. I believe that this is what James meant when he spoke of friendship with the world being enmity toward God.

[chakraman]

hi nn, i suppose i am a fan of what k says, and find him fascinating, though i know intellectually that who the teacher is, is irrelevant. you'd be right to imply that i have reproduced his "idea" as my own, though the truth of it does permeate me. i make no claims to be free, and agree that i am a second hand human being living on other peoples words and ideas. you dont put organised religion in with football then? regards j

[Nattering Nabob]

hi nn, i suppose i am a fan of what k says, and find him fascinating, though i know intellectually that who the teacher is, is irrelevant. you'd be right to imply that i have reproduced his "idea" as my own, though the truth of it does permeate me. i make no claims to be free, and agree that i am a second hand human being living on other peoples words and ideas.

I don't believe that any new thoughts have been generated for eons. The type of truth that we are all looking for here has always existed and has always been known by others.

he gives up material to gain spirit which is no renunciation at all but further accumulation...

...you dont put organised religion in with football then?

Somebody (I can't recall who) called the path of renunciation "walking the razors edge" for just this sort of conundrum. The Desert Fathers of Orthodox Christianity said that it is harder to be a monk at home than in a cell as the monk in the cell has less temptation. St. John of the Cross also warns of "spiritual gluttany" which I believe is what you referred to above.