The man or the vision?

[kabir]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Kabir hello!



Such people are the vehicles of the vision of their ages imho. the ‘divine one’ as you call it, does take form; as us and everything else. It does not make sense that he can take form as individuals like Jesus – Jesus was just a man as you or I who are already god in the form of humans!

Hi, Z! Well, in my view, man and everything else is already God, but unconscious of their divinity. The Avatar, on the other hand is the original limited soul (Adam) to traverse the path through evolution and involution from unconscious divinity to God Consciousness and comes back every now and again to give the rest of us the spiritual push we need.

Originally Posted by _Z_

Perhaps we could say that such people are chosen to be the vehicles of the visions! Or that they are of the relevant nature to receive. In short they are all as like Confucius, we just add the vision to the man thence seeing him as more.

Originally Posted by _Z_

glad to meet

respect

Z

Perhaps Confucius did experience his oneness with God consciously, I don't know... but yes, it's great to see you again my old friend...

love,
jack

[_Z_]

Man and everything else is already God

Exactly! Yet then you say one man is more god than another? Perhaps we are all treading the path of god being manifest in his natures, but this would deny us our individuality, and leaves us with a schism of there being only one being with multiple facets, yet for ‘it’ [god or whatever] to be universal it must have all natures such as separateness in paradox to oneness. I suppose Adam could be seen as the original self and god as that same being but complete, but I would still believe we are all equally ‘Adam’ too! [God in his forms]. Though 0f course we are giving form to something less tangible our words may describe.

Perhaps Confucius did experience his oneness with God consciously, I don't know... but yes, it's great to see you again my old friend...

What quirky humour is in this?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Exactly! Yet then you say one man is more god than another? Perhaps we are all treading the path of god being manifest in his natures, but this would deny us our individuality, and leaves us with a schism of there being only one being with multiple facets, yet for ‘it’ [god or whatever] to be universal it must have all natures such as separateness in paradox to oneness. I suppose Adam could be seen as the original self and god as that same being but complete, but I would still believe we are all equally ‘Adam’ too! [God in his forms]. Though 0f course we are giving form to something less tangible our words may describe.

maybe adam broke off in many pieces through his flesh (seed) & we gather ourselves back to God as offspring through Jesus, over time all the pieces become one body in spirit.
maybe that was in Gods vision of man?

[_Z_]

Yes possibly bandit, and surely god became the actuality of the vision as well as the vision itself! As like the universe is the body of god. What then if we take god out of the equation? Then we are simply what we are, beings who traverse worlds! These worlds are forever changing and there was no beginning or a creator, thence the visions are our visions of which we are the actuality/reality. Then there is no bond to tie all the visions together as one, thus the vision of visions is that there is no overall plan or vision of visions! – Life is not a question.



Just thought I would share the godless view in my duel perspective worldview. One day I will find a way to reconcile the differences, it seams an uphill task at the moment!

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Yes possibly bandit, and surely god became the actuality of the vision as well as the vision itself! As like the universe is the body of god. What then if we take god out of the equation? Then we are simply what we are, beings who traverse worlds! These worlds are forever changing and there was no beginning or a creator, thence the visions are our visions of which we are the actuality/reality. Then there is no bond to tie all the visions together as one, thus the vision of visions is that there is no overall plan or vision of visions! – Life is not a question.



Just thought I would share the godless view in my duel perspective worldview. One day I will find a way to reconcile the differences, it seams an uphill task at the moment!

Oh.
ok. but if i take God out of the equation, then i just have my own tiny little visions, like my vacation next year & where my burial plot will be.

i see what you are trying to do now, but i cant think that way. I have tried many times & have not succeeded. uphill for sure.
i suppose we will all find out soon enough about the actuality/reality vision.

[_Z_]

bandit
Well then lets rise and fall as we wander over the hill: firstly we take god out of the equation, then we put him back with a clear view of the beautiful valley below.
i am sure we will all end up their in our meanderings.

Z

[Bandit]

Z, i cant do it. i have tried many times & i end up with uncontrollable laughter for about 48 hours.

[_Z_]

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Well, part of our tradition is the idea that ideas raise sparks when they cone in contact with one another and this is the light that leads to truth. In other words, I take no real offense at any question.

Truth creates ideas, not other way around. Idea is creation of
Man, who was created by the Truth. That light is the truth.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

God does not leave us by ourselves and no people has ever been left without guidance.

God is Everything, people included, according to you, He is guiding himself,
that is impossible, because guiding requires time, which is something God
does not have.
The only guide we have is our Life, in which people have beliefs, that their guide is something else.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

The fact is we do not know His name. It is unimportant.

100 % truth !!

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

As to those who say there is no God, every human being is born with the right to choose his answer to that question. I think that is the essence of human rights and "free will". No other man has a right to usurp that or accept the responsibility of another for that. I think Buddhism accepts the concept of the Unborn and Uncreated so easily that it is a non-issue to Buddha, and an assumed denial of God has become a veil of misunderstanding since the days of the Buddha. Those are my personal feelings anyway.

Ask anything you like, I will try to answer as honestly as you ask; but by all means do not accept my answers because I offer them, read for yourself, study for yourself, choose for yourself.

Regards,
Scott

Can you please tell us what is :
1. Free ?
2. Unborn ?
3. Uncreated ?
And why do people need anything that have to do anything with Buddha ?

much respect and love !

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

Can you please tell us what is :
1. Free ?
2. Unborn ?
3. Uncreated ?
And why do people need anything that have to do anything with Buddha ?

much respect and love !

I like these ideas...

Free is original and undefined by circumstance. It may be framed by circumstance but is not defined by it.

Unborn - something that has not entered this world of humanity by birth or whose birth is not the defining quality of their presence among us.

Uncreated - something not something. :-) A potential something, or all potential somethings. By implication, the Uncreated can also not go out of existence.

As for the Buddha - He is an important figure one do well to study and struggle to understand, thereby perhaps being changed in the process. Surely worthy of note?!

[_Z_]

I think we are thinking in terms of beginnings and endings here. In a continuum – uncreated does not apply as there is nothing previous from whence to be created from.

Unborn;as in not yet born in this world perhaps, yet born in the previous world, thus this term too has no comparable meaning.

Free, yes I am with you here, so free that ‘it’ cannot be defined!



Hmm the Buddha, just add everything and the meaning universal to nirvana, then remove all duality and break the paradox, then nothing is still there. But is part of all things not a separate existence, more like the middle of crux of eternity.

Z