The Greatest Principle of Comparative Studies of Religions

inhumility · 03-29-2006, 07:57 AM

The advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an epoch making event towards the end of the nineteenth century in the history of comparative religions in the present era.
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Guided One (1835-1908), made it convenient for the human beings be of any race, color or creed to make comparative study of the Revealed Religions of the world and to accept the truth wherever one finds it. He set out many unbiased, neutral and full of wisdom principles for that purpose, the foremost among these is “The claim of a Religion on any topic as well as the logical argumentation should be from its Revealed Book”.
There may be a religion whose followers claim (e.g. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, Zoroastrianism or any other religion) that their religion or its teachings are for the whole world. ( i.e. it is international ), but the others may demand the followers of that religion to prove if this claim is explicitly mentioned in your Revealed Book and that if that claim has been supported by divine arguments in your Revealed Book.
This could be easily checked by anyone sincerely searching for the truth or guidance. If a religion on any of the important topics or human problems does not contain the relevant claim or argumentation / reasoning then that religion could be pronounced as a Dead Religion for all practical purposes. (One may remember here that all revealed religions in its origin were truthful; this fact has been highlighted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad many a times and with great emphases)
We are more concerned with the present era – a dynamic scientific era; where we live in. The humanity is facing very complex problems which must be addressed by the Living Religion of the world if there is any utility in the religion worth the name; any denomination. The religion is for the common as also for the highly literate and since it is claimed to be divine, it should satisfy the common man as also the very literate special man.
The followers of a religion might be very clever and cunning that they could advocate for their religion and could attribute claims to a religion which re not explicitly found in its Revealed Book or they could provide arguments in its favor which are only man-made and not provided by the Divine.
In that case such a religion could be pronounced on its merit, at the most, to be a man-made religion, definitely not sent by God. This could be a litmus test. Verify your religion of your choice on these two simple but wise counts; you might be stunned to realize that many a religion are just myths and its followers are following it only blindfolded.
On his own part Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad set out this epoch making principle in an Inter-Religions Conference in the year 1896 and then he proved that the religion of his choice has claim and arguments on the five basic questions facing by humanity:-

The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
What is the State of Man After Death?
The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
Sources of Divine Knowledge.

The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak.
I leave the solutions to the respected members. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!

lunamoth · 03-30-2006, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhumility

1. The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.

2. What is the State of Man After Death

3. The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.

4. The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.

5. Sources of Divine Knowledge.

The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak. I leave the solutions to the respected members. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!

1. Physical, moral and spiritual states are fused. Morality is a lower order consideration than a spirituality directed toward God.

2. Reunion with God and loved ones.

3. To know and worship God through prayer and worship to God, Scripture and sacraments from God, loving-kindness and service to humanity.

4. Love God and love one another.

5. Scripture, tradition and reason.

peace,
lunamoth

Mick · 03-30-2006, 02:12 PM

Luna Moth,

I believe the original theme of this posting is that you should be able to find references in your Revealed Books. The poster stated that adherents may make claims, but without support from your Revealed Book, at most, it would be a Man-Made Religion.

I am not suggesting that the Christian Religion is Man-Made, but the exercise was not to state your opinion or belief, but to answer the five questions with support from your Bible.

I am going to do the same for the Baha'i Faith. It should be interesting, but also time consuming. Hopefully, some other Baha'i will jump in first, and save me the time.

Mick

Thomas · 03-30-2006, 05:39 PM

From a Catholic perspective:
The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
"In him we live and move and have our being"
(Acts 17:28)
Which really answers the following questions, but ...

What is the State of Man After Death?
"In him we live and move and have our being"
(Acts 17:28) or:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"
Ephesians 1:4

The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name"
John 1:12

The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:18

Sources of Divine Knowledge.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 4:16

Apologies to Lunamoth for butting in...

Thomas

lunamoth · 03-30-2006, 05:41 PM

Hi Mick, I look forward to reading your post on this.

You might want to note, however, that the 'challenge' above was conceived by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, whose claim to be the Messiah is rejected by Baha'is. Thus, I'm not sure how definative this kind of comparison really will be.

Quote:

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (مرزا غلام احمد) (February 13, 1835–May 26, 1908), a highly controversial religious figure belonging to India, was the founder of the Ahmadiyya religious movement. He claimed to be the “Second Coming of Christ”, the promised Messiah, the Mahdi as well as the being the Mujaddid of the 14th. Islamic century[1]. He remains a highly controversial and reviled figure[2][3] among most Muslims who consider him to be an apostate[4]. Among his followers as well, who revere him and call themselves “Ahmadi Muslims”, the interpretation of his claims is controversial.

(Wiki: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad)

peace,
lunamoth

lunamoth · 03-30-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

From a Catholic perspective:
The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
"In him we live and move and have our being"
(Acts 17:28)
Which really answers the following questions, but ...

What is the State of Man After Death?
"In him we live and move and have our being"
(Acts 17:28) or:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"
Ephesians 1:4

The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name"
John 1:12

The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
"Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:18

Sources of Divine Knowledge.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 4:16

Apologies to Lunamoth for butting in...

Thomas

Very nice Thomas--much better than I would have done.

peace,
lunamoth

taijasi · 03-30-2006, 09:34 PM

I could answer all of these questions in a different way, but I find that Thomas' answers reflect my thinking almost precisely. Nevermind that we might explain the passages slightly differently, most of them leave little room for doubt or question.

The only caveat I have is that I think Divine Knowledge comes to us in several ways, and neither Jesus of Nazareth, nor the Person of the Christ, is responsible as such for all of these:

Foremost, one's own Highest Spirit, or the Soul/Buddhi/"Christ" within (Intuition), or the action/activity of the Divine Mind (`Holy Spirit') - aka, the Inner Light
Through those accomplished Souls who have gone before - some of Whom have even remained, and are with us to this day. This method of knowing refers to association with the Elder Brothers, in some form or fashion, and is more direct than the 3rd method, although ultimately it falls back on method #1, as do all ways of Knowing.
Through the revealed Teachings and writings, aka Holy Scriptures, of the Elder Brothers, from #2. These surely number in the hundreds, in terms of published and freely available written works - and that is not counting the existing World Religious Scriptures, which easily trebles or quadruples that number.
Many inferior forms of Knowledge exist, all dependent upon the (lower, personal, mortal) mind for confirmation - although some are largely emotive, or even of a sensory nature, in their origin. As already mentioned, these must ultimately be confirmed by the modus operandi of #1 ... in order for accuracy & validity to be confirmed.

A short attempt to document each of these sources for Divine Knowledge might include the following references:

Atma-buddhi-manas (Sanskrit) [from atman self + buddhi spiritual soul + manas mind] "The 'Three-tongued flame' that never dies is the immortal spiritual triad -- the Atma-Buddhi and Manas -- the fruition of the latter assimilated by the first two after every terrestrial life.

" 'I am the three-wicked Flame and my wicks are immortal,' says the defunct. 'I enter into the domain of Sekhem (the God whose arm sows the seed of action produced by the disembodied soul) and I enter the region of the Flames who have destroyed their adversaries,' i.e., got rid of the sin-creating 'four wicks' " (The Secret Doctrine 1:237, in reference to chap. i., vii., "The Egyptian Book of the Dead," and the "Mysteries of Ro-stan."). [The "four wicks" are terrestrial mind, the passions, the vital body or nephesh, and prana, or vitality itself]

Atmabodha (Sanskrit) [from atman self + bodha wisdom] Wisdom of self; knowledge or wisdom of the hierarch or highest portion of any being.
Mahatma (Sanskrit) [from maha great + atman self] Great soul or self; relatively perfected human beings, also called teachers, elder brothers, Masters, sages, seers, etc. They are human beings who, through self-directed evolution and spiritual striving over many lifetimes, have attained a lofty spiritual and intellectual state. They are farther advanced evolutionarily than the majority of people, possessing great knowledge and powers; but their primary duty is the instruction and protection of mankind. From this body of advanced human beings, which has existed since humanity attained self-consciousness, have come the great teachers and the wisdom at the root of the world's great religious, philosophic, and scientific systems.
As to the received Teachings of the Masters (and accounting for the methodologies of the production of many if not most of the world's true Holy Scriptures) ...

There have been four methods employed in transmitting this teaching from the Tibetan [a Master]to the general public.
1. Clairaudience - In the early stages (for the first two years), the Tibetan dictated the material incorporated in the first two books clairaudiently to Mrs. Bailey.
2. Telepathy - When Mrs. Bailey became more accustomed to this work, and when the discipline and diet necessarily began to take effect, the work was gradually changed and now ... it [is] entirely telepathic.
3. Clairvoyant vision - The various symbols in the books (and there are many) have been shown to Mrs. Bailey and then described by her.
4. Bringing through after sleep that which has been seen or heard while out of the physical body at night.

& 4. This is so self-evident that no quotation from any source is necessary.

The first three definitions provided can be credited to the Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary compiled by G. de Purucker ... although the source material itself comes from H.P. Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine, which itself is not a new set of teachings, but simply a presentation of Doctrines extant, such as the one given that has The Egyptian Book of the Dead for its origin.

The source of the description of Alice Bailey's methods for producing her 19 volumes of Teaching is The Beacon Magazine, June 1925. At request, I could provide offhand at least a dozen examples of this type of writing from authors other than H.P. Blavatsky and Alice Bailey, none of whom were writing as unconcious mediums, using automatic writing, or any other form of "divination" which might not come under the heading of the excercise of the faculties described in #1 above, and detailed under #3.

sighhh ... So `The Bible' for the esotericist is every Bible. It is truth, wherever Truth is found, and a ready answer is available for anyone who accuses the esotericist of pure relativism, or of formulating his own truths, or deciding them arbitrarily. Such an accusation will be countered with the testimony of every world religion, from the well-known to the very obscure, which all state in their Teachings that there are standards, there are Laws, and there are Presences - which together Guide our evolution, and ensure that the Plan of the Highest God be carried out. That the Will of Deity is in many ways inscrutable to us, none should argue. But that we are never meant to know, the esotericist will reject as a far worse blasphemy than to say that we can know! For if we are to forever labor in the darkness of ignorance and under the yoke of imperfection, then foolish, imperfect works will forever be the fruit. And while that may be satisfactory to the atheist, the materialist or the skeptic - it is not enough ... for those who tread The Way.

Om Tat Sat,

andrew

inhumility · 04-21-2006, 05:14 AM

Hi,
It is true, as commented by a respected member of the CR, that the challenge/principle that “The claim and the reasons or arguments should be from the Revealed Book one follows” is from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community. I liked the principle when I read it when I was just a child and still I am convinced that it is a very useful principle of comparative study of religions. At least one should confine, in all fairness, if one is a follower of a religion that one should not exceed the Book one believes has been revealed by God and the arguments presented by one should also be inferred clearly from the Book one believes in. No doubt that in faith I am a follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad but that is because I have not yet found any other faith that would convince me that they are better guided and truth is more with them. I am not a blind follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I am an open mind. The purpose of this exercise is that one could clearly explore the truth between the religions of the world under a common, simple yardstick and follow the best religion one finds among them. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) died a hundred years ago; he presented this criterion in an Interfaith Conference in the year 1896, the paper/book which he wrote is already translated in many languages of the world and published under the title “Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam”. Please make a search under the name “Mirza Ghulam Ahmad” in Wikipedia and read the paper titled above among his writings. The challenge as also its explanation and its implementation is available therein. This is a useful challenge. The followers of all other religions/denominations are exhorted to face this challenge singly or collectively for benefit of the people at large, for a comparison. A great characteristic of this book is that other religions/faiths have not been attacked and the author only confined himself to expressing merits and beauties of the religion he believed in.

Devadatta · 04-21-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhumility

On his own part Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad set out this epoch making principle in an Inter-Religions Conference in the year 1896 and then he proved that the religion of his choice has claim and arguments on the five basic questions facing by humanity:-

The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
What is the State of Man After Death?
The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
Sources of Divine Knowledge.

The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak.
I leave the solutions to the respected members. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!

Is this approach really all that open? Certainly, it's better than slamming other traditions or clinging to orthodoxy. And it may be useful way for some traditions to compare notes. On the other hand, framing specific questions this way kinds of loads the dice, and one can't help feeling it's aiming at a certain outcome. I'm reminded of the Buddha, who refused to answer certain metaphysical questions. To agree to the validity of a set of questions is to already accede to a set of assumptions.

Sincerely,
Devadatta

Mick · 04-21-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi,
It is true, as commented by a respected member of the CR, that the challenge/principle that “The claim and the reasons or arguments should be from the Revealed Book one follows” is from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community. I liked the principle when I read it when I was just a child and still I am convinced that it is a very useful principle of comparative study of religions. At least one should confine, in all fairness, if one is a follower of a religion that one should not exceed the Book one believes has been revealed by God and the arguments presented by one should also be inferred clearly from the Book one believes in. No doubt that in faith I am a follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad but that is because I have not yet found any other faith that would convince me that they are better guided and truth is more with them. I am not a blind follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I am an open mind. The purpose of this exercise is that one could clearly explore the truth between the religions of the world under a common, simple yardstick and follow the best religion one finds among them. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) died a hundred years ago; he presented this criterion in an Interfaith Conference in the year 1896, the paper/book which he wrote is already translated in many languages of the world and published under the title “Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam”. Please make a search under the name “Mirza Ghulam Ahmad” in Wikipedia and read the paper titled above among his writings. The challenge as also its explanation and its implementation is available therein. This is a useful challenge. The followers of all other religions/denominations are exhorted to face this challenge singly or collectively for benefit of the people at large, for a comparison. A great characteristic of this book is that other religions/faiths have not been attacked and the author only confined himself to expressing merits and beauties of the religion he believed in.

Inhumility,

I am satisfied that you are comfortable in the belief system you have chosen. This exercise seems to have given you great stead and, as I told you in a private message in response to your prodding me to answer your challenge, I will as time permits.

The exercise that has served me well is described by 'Abdu'l-Baha, the son and servant of Baha'u'llah. He said concerning,

Independent investigation of truth

"Furthermore, know ye that God has created in man the power of reason, whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to imitate blindly his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept." `Abdúl-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 291.

I invite you to investigate the claims of Baha'u'llah, for that is what you have asked me to do for you; to prove the validity of Baha'u'llah and all His claims.

If I follow the precepts that your originator has set forth, I may prove these claims, but to whom? To you? Maybe. But then what? The acceptance of the truth of a "delivered" message, that it came from God and is being disseminated by His Chosen One, should be carefully perused and prayed over. Understanding God's expectations of us shouldn't be considered as a contest, I wouldn't think, but should be approached with the concern and deportment of the most important issue a person will ever face.

Again, as an exercise, I will try to answer the questions put forth as time permits, but until then, I would suggest you investigate as well.

warmly,

Mick

inhumility · 04-26-2006, 07:56 AM

I understand that there are certain reservations of the members regarding the principle, therefore, for further elaboration I reproduce hereunder (!) An announcement made in this regard before this paper, Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam, was read in the Conference and (2) also first page of the above paper/book:-

(1)

“A GRAND PIECE OF NEWS FOR SEEKERS AFTER TRUTH

In his announcement Swami Shugan Chandra Sahib has invited the leading divines of Muslims, Christians and Aryas, in the name of God, that they should set forth the excellences of their respective faiths in the Conference proposed by him. We wish to inform Swami Sahib that to do honor to the name of God, as mentioned by him we are ready to comply with his request and, if God so wills, our paper will be read in the proposed conference. Islam is a faith which directs a true Muslim to demonstrate prefect obedience when he is called upon to do something in the name God. We shall now see how much regard his brothers the Aryas and the Christian divines have for the honour of Permeshwar or for Jesus and whether they are ready to participate in the conference which is to be held in the name of the Glorious Holy One.
In the conference of great Religions which will be held in Lahore Town Hall on the 26th, 27th and 28th of December 1896, a paper written by this humble one, dealing with the excellences and miracles of the holy Quran, will be read out. This paper is not the result of ordinary human effort but is a sign among the signs of God, written with His special support. It sets forth the beauties and truth of the Holy Quran and establishes like the noon-day sun that the Holy Quran is in truth God’s own Word and is a Book revealed by the Lord of all creation. Everyone who listens to this paper from the beginning to the end, to my treatment of all the five themes prescribed for the Conference, will, I am sure, develop a new faith and will perceive a new light shining within him and will acquire a comprehensive commentary on the Holy Word of God. This paper of mine is free from human weakness, empty boasts and vain assertions.
I Have been moved by sympathy of my fellow beings to make this announcement, so that they should witness the beauty of the Holy Quran and should realize how mistaken are our opponents in that they love darkness and hate light. God, the All–Knowing has revealed to me that my paper will be declared supreme over all other papers. It is full of the light of truth, wisdom and understanding which will put to shame all other parties , provided they attend the Conference and listen to it form beginning to end. They will not be able to match these qualities from their scriptures, whether they are Christians or Aryas or those of Sanatan Dharm, or any others, because God Almighty has determined that the glory of His Holy Book shall be manifested on that day. I saw in a vision that out of the unseen a hand was laid on my mansion and by the touch of that hand a shining light emerged from the mansion and spread itself in all directions. It also illumined my hands. Thereupon someone who was standing by me proclaimed in loud voice: Allahu Akbar, Kharibat Khaibar (God is Great, Khaibar has fallen). The interpretation is that by my mansion is meant my heart on which the heavenly light of the verities of the holy Quran is descending, and by Khaibar are meant all the perverted religions which are afflicted with paganism and falsehood, in which man has been raised to occupy the place of God, or in which divine attributes have been cast down from their perfect station. It was thus disclosed to me that a wide publication of this paper would expose the untruth of false religions and the truth of the Quran will spread progressively around the earth till it arrives at its climax. From this vision my mind moved towards the reception of revelation and I received the revelation (Arabic) God is with you, and God stands where you stand. This is a metaphor conveying the assurance of Divine support.
I need write no more. I urge everyone to attend the conference in Lahore even at some inconvenience and to listen to these verities. If they do so their reason and their faith will derive such benefit as is beyond their expectation. Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.
Ghulam Ahmad
Quadian, 21 December 1896.

(2)

“In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful. We praise Him and call down His blessings on His Noble Messenger.

Islam

It is necessary that a claim and the reason in support of it must be set forth from a revealed book.
In this auspicious Conference the purpose of which is that those who have been invited to participate in it should expound the merits of their respective religions with reference to the questions that have been formulated, I shall today set forth the merits of Islam. Before I proceed to do so I deem it proper to announce that I have made it obligatory upon myself that whatever I state will be based upon the Holy Quran which is the Word of God Almighty. I consider it essential that everyone who follows a book, believing it to be revealed, should base his exposition upon that book and should not so extend the scope of his advocacy of his faith as if he is compiling a new book. As it is my purpose today to establish the merits of the Holy Quran and to demonstrate its excellence, it is incumbent upon me not to state anything which is not comprehended in the Quran and to set forth everything on the basis of its verses and in accord with their meaning and that which might be inferred from them, so that those attending the Conference should encounter no difficulty in carrying out comparison between the teaching of different religions. As all those who believe in a revealed book will also confine themselves to statements comprised in their respective revealed books, I shall not make any reference to the tradition of the Holy Prophet, inasmuch as all true traditions are only explanatory of the holy Quran which is a prefect book comprehending all other books. In short this is the day of the manifestation of the glory of the Holy Quran and I humbly beseech God Almighty to assist me in this undertaking. Amen.”

Vajradhara · 04-26-2006, 06:38 PM

Namaste inhumility,

Buddha Dharma does not have a revealed book or any sort of revelation from a deity therein.

metta,

~v

inhumility · 04-29-2006, 12:49 PM

Swami Shugan Chandar had conceived the idea of holding a Conference of different religions/faiths to provide an opportunity to the truth-seekers in them for an Inter-Religious comparison and he approached all the leading figures of Religions in India and even personally visited and exhorted them to participate in the Conference and answer the five questions from the scriptures they believed in, the answers of which he thought was vital for the moral and spiritual uplift of fellow humans. India was most suited at that time to hold such a conference as followers of almost all big religions were present in India and the proverbial justice of British Rule facilitated it and provided the necessary security.
So, in fact, the questions were not selected by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi as some members of the CR have opined, however, in an announcement published by him; Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, requested the participants to make the most use of the Conference and for that he proposed that Claim & Reason should be given by the participants from the Revealed Book of the Religion of the speakers to facilitate an easy comparison. He himself, voluntarily, adhered to it very sincerely. Even otherwise whenever he addressed a gathering or he wrote an essay or a book on a religious topic he made it a point that he generally quoted the references for Claim & Reason from Quran, the pristine revealed book of Islam.
Now a hundred years have passed by. Still there are many truth seekers in the world who would respond to the call of their conscience and select for themselves the truth at all and every cost. I am also a very humble student in this regard. The world is now a global village; to commemorate the event and the centenary of the Conference and to remember the zeal and sincerity of Swami Shugan Chandar and Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; I have started the thread. It is a good opportunity for sincere truth seekers in all the religions and for benefit of the human beings in the world in general to contribute to this effort, singly or jointly or collectively. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in 1908 and the paper“Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam” which he wrote is already published and he cannot add anything to it. Others can read his wonderful paper and even then try to respond to the five topics /questions. , complying with the principle “Claim & Reason should be from the Revealed Book” as explained above.
The call is to everybody‘s conscience who believes that his religion, in its present form is all but truth and nothing but truth, and is best suited for the human beings on earth. If one can write one should write and his effort would be judged by the conscience of the other fellow human beings. This would be a service to humans which only God could reward. Many a selfless people would come forward and would not shy away from this important task, more particularly, the CR members. This in not a contest to establish unnecessarily supremacy of one religion on any other religion or intended to win or lose, this contest is for excellence. If this could happen a hundred years ago; it would happen now, every body should pray in this regard.
As for as Ahmadis are concerned; they are better represented by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Quadian whose role model paper is already published.
Please treat this as an easy to understand tool of Comparative Religions. And this is also useful for inter-denomination comparison with a slight modification.
No formality is needed. No superiority over others is desired. It is an open, unbiased and neutral principle for every body; even easier for the new writers as at least they have a model test paper before them.

YO-ELEVEN-11 · 04-29-2006, 07:55 PM

Being a non-religious person and not subscribing to religious dogmatic practices, I feel the statements below are cause for review by all of humanity and not just religious people. I will however give my opinion on the subject matter.

The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.

Physical, moral, and spiritual states have a "tie" that binds them
causing man to have to balance the three for ultimate peace.
The task of doing so is not easy, but can be done if we as humans
concetrate on the task.

Example: The art of healing does not have to be a long and cumberson process, but introducing other elements to the process i.e. non-critical drugs, makes it become a process that is more cumberson than it needs to be. Simply put "KISS IT" (keep it simple sam).

I feel that religious domga makes the process of balancing our physical, spiritual, and moral states more cumberson than it needs to be.

What is the State of Man After Death?

The state of man after death is the "physical", "spiritual" and moral states combined. It is in essence, taking all three and combining them. Death is not an act of renewal or an end to us, but a way for us to understand and "agree" that we must take time to "understand" each other before our "states" combine and lead us to the grave.

The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.

The object of "man's" life "is" the means of it attainment.
i.e. a child does not ask to be born, but when the time comes is pushed out and given the things to survive, but is not given the purpose of its life. Ultimatelty leading that child to want to balance his or her spiritual, moral and physical states. After which, wanting to know how and why life was attained in the first place. Life is attained through wanting to know its attainment. Simply put, humans attained life after which there was no turning back. A child can no more climb back in the womb, than man can reach back and fully understand the attainment of life.

The attainment of life should not be fully understood, but looked at as a chance to grow.

The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.

Ordinances and law, should, in essence be how we "communicate" on this planet as a whole. Humans are not that much different from each other in the way practice beliefs systems. The catch 22 with laws and ordinances is that they will always change and grow with us. i.e. no law or practical ordincnce will stay static in any belief system. As we grow on this planet, so will the ideas of the operation of the practical ordinances of the law in this life as well as the next.

Sources of Divine Knowledge.

Divine knowledge is not given by a source or sources at all, but is part of our gift of "life". In other words, we should not worry about the source, but how we as humans deal with each other upon knowing something good. In other words, The act of cooking is a process that is good. We as humans should not worry so much about who invented the act of cooking, but cook because it can be beneficial to all.

gwenwifar23 · 04-30-2006, 02:09 PM

Is a religion truthfull when it is born?
What is the difference between religion and science?

The following is a short translation of chapter 9 of the book "Cirkels van Licht en Liefde" (Circles of Light and Love) of Andreas Firewolf. The title of that chapter is: "Wetenschap en geloof" (Science and faith). It is a revolutionary book. In fact, Andreas Firewolf has been persecuted during the '90's because people could not cope with the things he stated.

The whole book is made available online in PDF-format on http://www.andreas333.com/nl/cursus/cirkel

if this is read by a publisher: Please contact Andreas Firewolf if you want to translate and publish his work in english. He has written more than a dozen books. His Runic-tarot is famous, as is his book Kundalini-yoga. You can email him at info@andreas333.com

A small part of his site is in english. http://www.andreas333.com

Weten-schap means litterally: Knowledge-board. It is a board with peaces of knowledge on it. That is what science really is. It is a heap with peaces of knowledge.
And that is also true for any religion. Any religion can be seen as a heap of peaces of knowledge.

What is the difference between any religion and science? According to Andreas Firewolf:

Scientists try to falsify knowledge-clusters from their heap of knowledge. When a knowledge-cluster is falsified it is removed from the heap. The knowledge-clusters on the heap of science are accepted as long as they are not falsified. In this way science tries to be up-to-date.
Religions as known in the west (the religions of jews, christians and muslims) started with acceptable knowledge-clusters when they were founded. But the jews did something fundamentally wrong. They stated, that their heap of knowledge-clusters came directly from god. "Thou shall not cast doubt on the holy scripture and those who do shall be removed from society (killed)". The christians and muslims copied this dogma. The main difference with science is: Scientists try to falsify their knowledge-clusters, jews, christians and muslims do not allow themselves to question their knowledge-clusters. Because of this, their religions became stagnant.

There is some difference with some forms of bhudism and jnana-yoga. Some of their practitioners really try to falsify their knowledge-clusters and operate like scientists.

According to Andreas Firewolf:

Science is not scientific. The knowledge-clusters on the heap of science are not proven to be true. Scientists believe in their knowledge-clusters. So they are true believers themselves. They have faith in gravity.
The main difference is, that scientists use the scientific method. The scientific method makes them scientists. According to the scientific method:
1. Make a statement about a knowledge-cluster that can be falsified.
1a. When it is not possible to make such a statement, the knowledge-cluster is out of scope with science. It does not belong to the domain of science. For example: the survival of the soul after the death of the physical body can not be falsified. It does not belong to the domain of science.

2. After making such a statement, try to falsify the statement. When the statement is falsified, you know that the knowledge-cluster is wrong and you remove it from the scientific heap.

According to Andreas Firewolf:

We can not live without faith. We can not know anything for sure. We believe in gravity, because we can not falsify it. We can believe in god or in our own soul. The concept of god and the concept of soul is not within the domain of science because science can not falsify those concepts.
However, we can make statements about the effects of the believe in god or in the soul. For example:
People who believe in god or in reincarnation cope better with problems than people who reject such beliefs.
This statement can be falsified, so it belongs to the scientific domain. It is quite easy to divide a number of people in believers and non-believers of some statement and to follow these people for a number of years. Then you can make statements about the effect of a certain believe on the well-being of people. You can also make statements on the chances of long-term survival of a group of believers or non-believers. Those that believe that smoking 72 cigarettes a day is beneficial for their soul are likely to die young.

Suppose you have a cult. Followers of this cult believe that it is wrong to have sex. When you follow them, you notice that they become extinct in one generation. Then you can draw the conclusion that it is an unhealthy believe.
Suppose you have a cult. Followers have to commit suicide at the age of 25. You notice that there are no members older than 25. You come to the conclusion that that cult is very unhealthy.
These examples are a little ridiculous. But they show how religious commandments can be beneficial or maleficial. And one can make scientific statements about the effects on our earthly life of any commandment of any religion.
You can use economic-darwinism on religion. Any old religion has to have some benefits. When a new religion replaces an older religion it has to be better adapted to the needs of that time. It is not survival of the fittest, but survival of the one who fits best in the niche were it thrives.