The God

[mee]

Originally Posted by akbar

mee,

If your God is jehovah, I can accept it as mine also but if you insist on this are any other name then we differ from each other.

Jehovah

Definition: The personal name of the only true God. His own self-designation. Jehovah is the Creator and, rightfully, the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. "Jehovah" is translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, יהוה, which means "He Causes to Become." These four Hebrew letters are represented in many languages by the letters JHVH or YHWH

[taijasi]

Please don't call G-d `Pete' or `Bill' or he will really get p*ssed. Also, do not call on Thursday afternoons, because that is golf day.
(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

A bit more seriously, consider the first of Three Fundamental Propositions from the Proem of The Secret Doctrine, by H.P. Blavatsky:

An Omnipresent, Eternal, Boundless, and Immutable PRINCIPLE on which all speculation is impossible, since it transcends the power of human conception and could only be dwarfed by any human expression or similitude. It is beyond the range and reach of thought in the words of Mandukya, "unthinkable and unspeakable."

Kabbalistically, this is identical with the Ain Soph Aur, or more simplistically, the Brahman of Hinduism. Some Buddhists might refer to it as Adi Buddha, although more accurately it would be Shunyata (sometimes called `The Void,' which is quite misleading!). Christianity, imho, has been so watered down & distorted over the centuries, that little remains in mainstream, exoteric teachings regarding what is sometimes called, rather Neoplatonically, `The Absolute.' This concept, however, is the same as the Hindu Brahman ... or to speak in terms of metaphysics, it is certainly a linguistic and conversational effort to "get at" the same, underlying reality.

The earlier post I made states quite clearly that "Jehovah is not the ancient of the ancient, or "aged of the aged," of the Zohar" and supports this quite proposition at length. Certainly any named G-d, Jehovah or otherwise, does not represent the Ultimate Reality ... unless, of course, we are willing to take this precisely at face value. In the same way that a small figurine of Siva Nataraj or Manjushri might represent some spiritual level of Being (or entities operating in those realms of consciousness) ... so the image or idea of the Jewish YHWH could be said to represent that Deity spoken of in Acts 17:28: "In Him we live and move and have our being." And yet, Blavatsky has gone to great length in Isis Unveiled precisely to show that this association is a mistaken and inaccurate one!

I suppose what it boils down to, on a more personal level, is ... with what name or terminology are you personally most comfortable ... if we are discussing Deity? And that's back to, "I say tomAto, you say tomAHto."

What is an offensive and absurd notion ... is that any being worthy of praise and honor (let alone `worship') should expect to be called upon verbally in any wise that does not reflect and embody the believer's own highest aspirations, inasmuch as these may be either outwardly spoken - or more importantly, expressed in the innermost portions of one's being. The latter method of prayer, after all, is what Christ recommended to his own followers, as recorded in Matthew 6:1-18 (esp. verse 6).

This is to say, that if I do not particularly like the term Abba, but prefer the most respectful appellation Allah (hmmm, only an idiot could fail to see that these are virtually identical utterances) ... then so be it. This is how I should pray, and how I should refer to the Divine Presence.

Now if I am a Freemason, and I am more comfortable with the symbolic term TGAOTU, standing as it does for The Great Architect of the Universe, then I have neither denied nor confirmed that I also believe in the Jewish YHWH (or Jehova) ... but I think, in the end, my actions will speak louder than my words - and I know, because I have a modicum of good sense, that I will be judged accordingly (that is to say, justly and appropriately). To believe less, or otherwise - as an intelligent person - would be beneath us.

On a personal note, the expression TGAOTU seems to me to be one of the most Honorable, Beautiful & Sublime conceptions of The Deity that anyone could ever be capable of! Consider, for a moment, the implications. Not to diverge entirely ... but we do know that in our Galaxy there exist well over a quarter of a trillion stars. Our galaxy is large, yet even if most galaxies have only 200 billion or so stars, let's mulitiply that by the 33 galaxies in our Local Group. [Hmm, 33 - an important number!] That's well over 6 trillion stars!!!

Now consider that scientists estimate the existence of at least 100 billion galaxies, often arranged in galaxy clusters ... and quickly we can see that there are easily as many as a 20 sextillion (20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) stars out there in the known Cosmos. Yes, this is a real number. But doesn't it seem A BIT ABSURD to pretend like we really have a clue about the Deity/Deities that "run things" at such levels!?! Oh sure, it's a guy named Jehovah. Ummmm ...

I'm not trying to step on toes, because I think this is as fascinating as the next guy or gal. I just think it's the height of folly to pretend we really have a clue. It wouldn't be unreasonable for us to just throw up our hands and say, "Ya know, it's really beyond me!" But instead, plenty of people are rather obsessed with finding either the appropriate label for our tiny little conceptions of Cosmic Order & Orchestration (or rather, that tiny, almost insignificant little portion of it with which we are fortunate enough to be familiar). It's either labels, or little ideas that actually mesh quite nicely with other people's ideas ... if only we could relinquish our pet notions for a moment and see the fit.

Since I bothered to volunteer the latest scientific speculations regarding star & galaxy count ... I figure I might also share the second of H.P. Blavatsky's Three Fundamental Propositions from the Proem of The Secret Doctrine:

The Eternity of the Universe in toto as a boundless plane; periodically "the playground of numberless Universes incessantly manifesting and disappearing," called "the manifesting stars," and the "sparks of Eternity." "The Eternity of the Pilgrim" is like a wink of the Eye of Self-Existence (Book of Dzyan.) "The appearance and disappearance of Worlds is like a regular tidal ebb of flux and reflux."

Hmmm, even the language here seems familiar ... identical, in fact, with the Biblical description of time from the perspective of Deity. This vast cycle of manifestation and rest, is quite familiar to Hindu scholars as that of (Maha-)Manvantara and (Maha-)Pralaya, though the trillions of years (in the very least) which form any given grand cycle (Solar, super-Solar, or Cosmic) is certainly at odds with science's meagre estimate of 18 billion years for the age of the Universe.

The cycle referred to in the 2nd Proposition is infinite, however, according to the teaching. Manifestation (its first moments rather unpoetically conceived as `The Big Bang,' the second half of the cycle being `The Big Crunch') is the outbreath ... and upon Deity's inbreath, we return to our Source (as the reconciled Prodigal Pilgrim), and rest. Upon whatever turn of the spiral we happened to be prior to Pralaya, we issue forth again at the inception of a new Cosmos, and thus serve in our place - assisting those below us on the (spiral) ladder, as we also strive to place our foot on a higher rung. The spiral climbs from the Infinite - stretching below us, into Infinity - stretching above. In one regard, the spiral widens as we ascend; thus our circle (literally) expands as we rise. Simultaneously, the spiral narrows as we grow closer & closer together. Apparent individualities integrate, and vast consciousnesses, upon realizing their goal, synthesize.

A singularity, by this definition, is but the next higher order of synthesis - beyond whose point of absolute fusion ... or tiny minds cannot penetrate. We must learn not to feel apprehension as we face the uncertainty and utter unknowing of "staring into the Void." Perhaps if we remember the meaning of certain lines from the Gayatri as we speculate on The Infinite, we may be comforted:

Oh Thou, from Whom all things proceed,
To Whom all things return,
Reveal to us the face of the True, Spiritual Sun,
Hidden by a disc of golden Light,
That we may know the Truth and do our whole duty
As we journey to - Thy sacred, Lotus feet.

For anyone interested, the third and most directly relevant of The Secret Doctrine's 3 Fundamental Propositions ... is readily available online. I fully expect to be pondering these basics - 10 lifetimes from now.

Peace,

andrew

[kabir]

What is God?

jack

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by akbar

I agree with your words when you mention about Allah from Qoran but I do not agree that Tha God or Allah is Islamic, Christian or Jewish. The God in Hindi language is Bhagwan (the Creator of destiny) and I agree with this word also and there can be so many words in so many languages.

Salaam Akbar,

did you know that Bhagawan is also a title of a Buddha?

metta,

~v

[akbar]

Namastay Vajradhara,

yes, I know.

[mee]

I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the ANCIENT OF DAYS sat down. DANIEL 7;9

(Psalm 90:2) Before the mountains themselves were born, Or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, Even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.

(Daniel 7:13) "I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man (JESUS)happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.



(Daniel 7:22) until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.



(Habakkuk 1:12) Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. O Jehovah, for a judgment you have set it; and, O Rock, for a reproving you have founded it.



(Revelation 4:2) After these things I immediately came to be in [the power of the] spirit: and, look! a throne was in its position in heaven, and there is one seated upon the throne............... Yes the ancient of days is Jehovah as the bible tells me