The Function Of Belief

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Birds do make aesthetic choices based on display and song. We cannot talk to a bird so we cannot know the individual criteria, like with humans, that will decide whether mating proceeds or not. So all aesthetics have there root in the need to breed.
Tao

My aesthetics do not have their root in the need to breed and I am the same species as you. How you can claim to know the aesthetics of another species is even more interesting.

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

My aesthetics do not have their root in the need to breed and I am the same species as you. How you can claim to know the aesthetics of another species is even more interesting.

s.

I am sorry Snoopy but on this I think you are just wrong, or perhaps I am not explaining myself clearly. So I will try to do it in a single unambiguous sentence! ...Aesthetic sensibilities "evolved" as part of the reproductive mating game.
In humans maybe they have evolved a little more, but I personally doubt that, but the "root" of the sense is in our sexuality.

Tao

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I am sorry Snoopy but on this I think you are just wrong, or perhaps I am not explaining myself clearly. So I will try to do it in a single unambiguous sentence! ...Aesthetic sensibilities "evolved" as part of the reproductive mating game.
In humans maybe they have evolved a little more, but I personally doubt that, but the "root" of the sense is in our sexuality.

Tao

No I think you were explaining yourself clearly (and as unambiguous as ever, Tao!). I can appreciate the “mating game” involves courtship displays which involve such things as colours and sounds, but to say that all human aesthetics have this at their root I think is a bit of a stretch.

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

No I think you were explaining yourself clearly (and as unambiguous as ever, Tao!). I can appreciate the “mating game” involves courtship displays which involve such things as colours and sounds, but to say that all human aesthetics have this at their root I think is a bit of a stretch.

s.

Well taking the word root in the sense of 'root cause' then i do believe I am correct. have a look at this clip of the Bower Bird.

YouTube - Bower Bird Mating Display

It builds a sculpture. Surrounds it with pretty objects. Sings a song of love. These are all aesthetic devices motivated for mating. People are no different. The male will tidy up his home, make it look good, hang pretty pictures, (extra kudos if he has produced them too), and write his prospective mate poetry, love letters or if he aint very good at it he'l buy other peoples to use. Its exactly the same. As I say I am prepared to concede the possibility that human aesthetics are evolving beyond that, but I do not see any compelling evidence, but the root is very much a part of the mating ritual.

Tao

[Snoopy]

Maybe we're just splitting hairs over "root" (Australian slang, grey!).

Did Beethoven spend a lifetime creating music just to impress the ladies?

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Maybe we're just splitting hairs over "root" (Australian slang, grey!).

Did Beethoven spend a lifetime creating music just to impress the ladies?

s.

Perhaps not consciously, but the root of that compulsion evolved as a part of our mating instincts.

Tao

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Perhaps not consciously, but the root of that compulsion evolved as a part of our mating instincts.

Tao

He was a dirty dog!

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

He was a dirty dog!

s.

Aint we all!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj25gRwsZmE

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Aint we all!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj25gRwsZmE

I'm not even going to look at it!

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I'm not even going to look at it!

s.

[Paladin]

So when Robin Williams' character in "Dead Poets Society" said the purpose of poetry was to "woo women" he wasn't kidding was he?

[flowperson]

All surface aesthetics aside, the phenomenon of belief has mostly to do with recognizing beauty and dwelling upon it for whatever reason. Beauty is attractive to the eye, ears, nose, touch, etc. It is addictive and holds one's attentions for longer than normal periods of time and may initiate physical activities.

This is a unique process which requires equal contributions by one's heart and mind. The coordinated sense of the beauty perceived and recognized by an individual may be sexually based, since that is the most common and least complex of human reactions. Beauty triggers desire, and in turn, desire brings suffering. (This is what the Adam and Eve story is really about folks). Beauty admired and consumed sires belief. Poetry and prose are also forms of beauty if appropriately constructed.

If you love home baked apple pies, if you gaze longingly at them, if you smell their fresh-baked goodness, if you take a few bites of a slice with vanilla ice cream when it's warm, you do in a sense fall in love with its beauty through several sensing organs all over again. Your positive memories of past experiences with home-baked apple pie reinforces your desire to consume same, in mass quantities if you're a conehead. And if you do this often enough you WILL gain weight.

flow....

[China Cat Sunflower]

Flowy! It's about time you showed up!

I've gotta split hairs with you a little because I think that beauty just sucks us in. Beauty is the universe's way of getting us to stick our beaks into its blossoms. It's the process that we really dig. Baking a perfect pie is far more gratifying than admiring or consuming it. We love, love, love the beauty of natural processes. We seek endlessly to understand and approximate what nature does. All of our arts and letters ultimately stem from that. And it's super-dee-duperty (to quote a famous purple dinosaur) cool that the naturo-sphere seems to have a built in apprenticeship program with innumerable possible entrances. Think of all the different avenues of exploration we humans are engaged in. All the ways we're studying ourselves and everything else that goes to make up our world of plants, animals , rocks , and other stuff. Every pursuit a doorway to the Momma Nature's dressing room. And all the arts and sciences, all the trades and crafts, all the philosophy and religion is connected in ways usual and unusual. It doesn't matter where one decides to matriculate because we never run out of new possibilities to explore! You can't see it all in one or several lifetimes.

The only people I know who are truly miserable, excepting disease of course, are those who are bored out of their skulls because they have never found anything to get passionately creative over.

Chris

[flowperson]

Hi Chris...You and I see this pretty much the same way. The beauties of nature draw you in through your senses, heart, and mind and you are aesthetically pulled into her realities depending upon your preferences.

For those who cannot bake a homemade apple pie, consuming one is just the other side of the same beautiful experience. I'll agree that too much ilconsidered consumption is, in the long term, not a very beautiful thing and leads to suffering. But we are a part of nature and as such we constantly are drawn to pleasurable experiences.

Maybe a slice of warm pie and a cup of coffee will lead someone to sit down and write a story or poem about the experience. A Dutch master might have painted a still life of a cooling pie and a steaming cup of coffee. They were so good at manipulating light on canvas with oil paints. See how such experiences are connected by our creative natures?

BTW, have we just defined what pagans are ?

Tao...Speaking of Pagans, I didn't click and register on your youtube link because another naughty boy label would have probably been connected with my name in cyberspace. And G-d knows I've got them plastered all over my bod already. Besides that Muslimwoman's back in the desert and would likely put me on her naughty spot should she find out about it. *shudder*

flow....

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Paladin

So when Robin Williams' character in "Dead Poets Society" said the purpose of poetry was to "woo women" he wasn't kidding was he?

No!! I am such a disliker of holywood, yet it cannot but by chance produce the occasional gem. Dead poets was one. It should b made compulsory viewing in every classroom. Not because it refutes my argument on roots but because it shows the endless beauty of desires expression.

Tao