the earlier Jews and Christians recognize prophet Muhammad and expect his coming

[Jamarz]

I don't see the irony..I do have results of my studies in my head and notes all over the place but they are not organized in a logical presentation on paper. So in order to clear up any confusion, I have ideas that I am going to present to the forum in the order that I have them.
I wish that I could just go to a web page and cut and paste but some of us just have to struggle thru the old fashioned way of translating thought, notes and resources onto a blank screen with some degree of coherence. But never mind because I am just going to present my notes.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Irony is the "fact" that you perport "results of studies", yet you are not quite "ready to present said results"? Hmmm.

Best if you simply stated you had ideas you'd like to present, then present them as you have them...

Q

This is what I found:

So from the Codex Vaticanus (Codex B), one of the oldest near complete copies of the original Greek NT that dates from the 4th century (200 years before the birth of the Prophet of Islam) and is located in Rome, two distinguished professors Dr. Phillip Payne and Prof. Paul Canart examined each occurence of Parakletos in John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7; and they say that there is absolutely no sign of any alteration of these words in the actual Codex B. In addition, Petermasih states that he has checked photographs of the oldest fragments of the passages that mention PARAKLETOS(dating from the 2nd century). He, also sees no evidence of alterations. So he is convinced that the original word was revealed was PARAKLETOS and not PERIKLETOS. source: Jelsoft Enterprise v.Bulletin v3.5.4.

Does the above information help? I will post the Aramaic sources in a few. I have decided to just give all of you my notes since I am not writing a formal presentation.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Jamarz

I don't see the irony..I do have results of my studies in my head and notes all over the place but they are not organized in a logical presentation on paper. So in order to clear up any confusion, I have ideas that I am going to present to the forum in the order that I have them.
I wish that I could just go to a web page and cut and paste but some of us just have to struggle thru the old fashioned way of translating thought, notes and resources onto a blank screen with some degree of coherence. But never mind because I am just going to present my notes.



This is what I found:

So from the Codex Vaticanus (Codex B), one of the oldest near complete copies of the original Greek NT that dates from the 4th century (200 years before the birth of the Prophet of Islam) and is located in Rome, two distinguished professors Dr. Phillip Payne and Prof. Paul Canart examined each occurence of Parakletos in John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7; and they say that there is absolutely no sign of any alteration of these words in the actual Codex B. In addition, Petermasih states that he has checked photographs of the oldest fragments of the passages that mention PARAKLETOS(dating from the 2nd century). He, also sees no evidence of alterations. So he is convinced that the original word was revealed was PARAKLETOS and not PERIKLETOS. source: Jelsoft Enterprise v.Bulletin v3.5.4.

Does the above information help? I will post the Aramaic sources in a few. I have decided to just give all of you my notes since I am not writing a formal presentation.

Which displays...what?, in your words?

[Jamarz]

I said:

So from the Codex Vaticanus (Codex B), one of the oldest near complete copies of the original Greek NT that dates from the 4th century (200 years before the birth of the Prophet of Islam) and is located in Rome, two distinguished professors Dr. Phillip Payne and Prof. Paul Canart examined each occurence of Parakletos in John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7; and they say that there is absolutely no sign of any alteration of these words in the actual Codex B. In addition, Petermasih states that he has checked photographs of the oldest fragments of the passages that mention PARAKLETOS(dating from the 2nd century). He, also sees no evidence of alterations. So he is convinced that the original word was revealed was PARAKLETOS and not PERIKLETOS. source: Jelsoft Enterprise v.Bulletin v3.5.4.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Which displays...what?, in your words?

In my own words, hmm, I was following a line of thinking presented by a Bahai friend of mine who claimed that Muhammed was indeed the Paraclete of John 14:16,26;15:26; and 16:7. The spirit of God was manifested first in Muhammed, and then in Bahá’u’lláh, who was actually the second coming of Christ. Now is the time for all faiths to unite under the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh so that world unity and peace can be achieved.

So I began to do a search for what these verses in John meant because most of my Christian walk, I have always assumed that the Paraclete was the Comforter, the Holy Spirit of Christ/God, the Spirit of Truth, who convicts the world of sin, opens the heart of the unbeliever which leads to repentance and acceptance of Christ as Savior and Lord. At that moment, the Holy Spirit indwells the believer to teach, to exhort and to comfort. This is accomplished thru study of Scripture, Prayer, corporate Worship and Teaching at a Bible-believing Church, known as the Body of Christ.

Soon I found out that in Islam, the Paraclete was not considered a spirit but the Prophet Muhammed. Here is a portion of why Muslims believe this:

Quote from an online discussion from the Muslim perspective:

“All Bibles in existence today are compiled from “ancient manuscripts,” the most ancient complete collections of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

What the translators of the Bible have done when presented with such discrepancies is to do their best to choose the correct version. In other words, since they cannot know which “ancient manuscript” is the correct one, they must do a little detective work on the text in order to decide which “version” of a given verse to accept. John 14:26 is just such an example of their selection techniques.

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the “ancient manuscripts” themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the “Parakletos” is the Holy Spirit.

For instance, in the famous the Codex Syriacus, written around the fifth century C.E., and discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs.Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; “Paraclete, the Spirit” ; and not “Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.” ‘.


This last paragraph lead me to consider finding information about the Codex Syriacus to examine further the claim that the original text may have been altered.

Also some other accusations coming from Professor Abdul-Ahad Dawud’s book “Muhammed in the Bible” regarding the tampering of the original text to change the Greek Word Parakletos to Perikltos (praised one) which the Professor concludes would be another prophet like Jesus, a human being not a spirit.

The evidence from Codex B suggests that that “PARAKLETOS” is the correct original word. No sign of tampering or alterations.

From the New American Standard Bible:
John 14-16-17
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper(parakletos) that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.


So what does PERIKLUTOS (Perikltos) mean?
Muslim scholars often assert that it means "praised one".

From the Greek-English Lexicon by Liddell & Scott
The literal meaning is: PERI = around, about, all around
KLUTOS = heard of so PERIKLUTOS = (literally) heard of all around
= famous one, renowned one.

This is not exactly “praised one” as suggested by Professor Abdul-Ahad Dawud and other Muslim Scholars.








 

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Jamarz

I am curious about copyright issues on my own thoughts.

I'm not a copyright or I.P. expert. I did take a class on copyright in law school though, and can help you find some resources to learn more if you want. But I know some basics.

If you mean "copyright . . . on my own thoughts" literally, you are probably out of luck. In the U.S., copyrights attach when a work of intellectual property becomes "fixed in a tangible medium." That might include original matters posted on this forum (as soon as you hit the "save" button and it's written to the disk on somebody's server), but I doubt it would include your "thoughts." Posting things on forums owned and operated by someone else may create some issues as well. Before you post what you consider important original scholarship, you should probably be careful to read the disclaimers and rules of conduct for the site and forum and maybe even correspond with the site's owner. And "fixing in a tangible medium" is not the same as "registering." You can have a valid copyright, but not register it. Of course, you are in a much better position to fight copyright infringement if you can prove prior registration as well as a prior fixation in media.

[Friend]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Sorry, but Mohammed is absolutely not prophesised in Buddhism. The teachings of Mohammed are very much at odds with the teachings of Buddha.

Surely ,,,because Islam is a heaven religion

[Friend]

Originally Posted by Friend

clearer fulfillment of the prophecy of Muhammad [pbuh] is found in Isaiah chapter 42:

1. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." Also called "My Messenger" in verse 19. No doubt all Prophets were indeed servants, messengers and elect of Allah. Yet no Prophet is universally called by these titles as Muhammad (pbuh) in Arabic "Abduhu wa Rasuluhul Mustafa" i.e. His slave servant and His elected Messenger.

2. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street." This describes the decency of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

3. "...he shall bring forth judgment unto truth."

4. "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law." This is to be compared with Jesus, who did not prevail over his enemies and was disappointed because of the rejection by the Israelites.

5. "I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" "and will keep thee," i.e. no other Prophet will come after him. In a short time many Gentiles were guided into Islam.

6. "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." "Blind eyes, life of darkness" denotes here the pagan life. "Bring out the prisoners from the prison" denotes the abolishment of slavery for the first time in the history of mankind.

7. "Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof." "A new song", as it is not in Hebrew or Aramaic, but Arabic. The praise of God and His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is chanted five times daily from the minarets of millions of mosques all over the world.

8. "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains." From mount Arafat near Mecca the Pilgrims chant every year the following: "Here I come [for your service] O, Allah. Here I come. Here I come. There is no partner with you. Here I come. Verily Yours is the praise, the blessings and sovereignty. There is no partner besides You." Isaiah 42 can never be applied to an Israelite Prophet as Kedar is the second son of Ishmael. See Genesis 25:13.

9. "Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands." And really Islam spread to the small islands as far as Indonesia and the Caribbean Sea.

10. "...he shall prevail against his enemies." In a short period the Kingdom of God on earth was established with the advent of Muhammad (pbuh). The 42nd chapter of Isaiah describes exactly the character of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

This post have the most important and informative ideas according to me,,,no one discussed it

[bananabrain]

perhaps that's because you're not interested in discussion. you appear to be interested in why you're right and everyone else should just agree with you. isaiah is not talking about muhammad. all references to the "servant" refer to "my servant jacob", in other words, the jewish people. seeing as it's a jewish prophecy, i wouldn't have thought shoehorning jesus, let alone muhammad into it would make any sense. the future stuff is more likely to refer to the masih, but to my knowledge muhammad never claimed this title, leaving it for isa/jesus, but in any case we don't accept this, because jesus's parameters do not fit our requirements. are all jews living in israel? i don't think so. is there world peace and universal morality? i don't think so. look at the text in total, rather than just the bits that suit you and you'll see that it's describing a scenario which has yet to occur.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[17th Angel]

sorry your post is too large for me to be arsed to read, but reading the topic title.... No early christans never have (and christans never will) recognise your prophet...

[Vajradhara]

Namaste HaSsy,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by HaSsy

Helllo,

First of all my buddhist freind there here is a link you will be very interested in. A scholar who has memorised every scripture, torah, bible, buddhist and hindu scriputres.

Dr. Naik does not claim to have memorized all the Buddhist Suttas and this information was published by him.

Here is a link for you regarding muhammad(saw) in the buddhist scriptures.

INTRODUCTION TO BUDDHISTS

please read the first part of my rebuttal to this Muslim disinformation regarding my religion here:

Buddhist response to Dr. Naik pt 1

suffice it to say that the information which you've been taught about my religion is not correct.

metta,

~v