The Cunning Arts....

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Dear Ben,

Christianity was easily accepted by the Druids- there really wasn't a bloody revolution there. The mysteries of Hibernia were presentient to the Christian Sun Mystery- discussed in The Flaming Door: Mission of the Celtic Folk Soul
by Eleanor C. Merry.

I wouldn't say that Christianity was easily accepted by the Druids, since there is evidence of quite a bit of resistence. I can look up some references if you like, but historians do not think that Christianity was easily accept by the original Druids, although the revival-period Druids blended what they could surmise of the original Pagan beliefs with Christianity and Western Mystery groups such as the Freemasons and Rosicrucians.

However, I believe you are right in the sense that it was not as foreign in its concepts (such as rebirth/resurrection, a god that is self-sacrificing, etc.) as it was to some other indigenous earth-based traditions. The Druids, from what little evidence we have, appear to have absorbed some of the concepts, likewise, Christianity in the UK and Ireland absorbed quite a bit of the traditional Pagan concepts (and still retains that flavor). However, it certainly was the case that the Druids resisted Roman Catholicism, and also that there was plenty of healthy debate between Celtic Christians and Catholics.

The vestiges of the Pagan theology are visible in the sharp divide between some of the concepts in Celtic Christianity and Catholicism/traditional Protestantism. For example, some of the main Celtic Christian figures believed in the essential goodness of humanity (as opposed to the more traditional/conservative view in Christianity that humanity is born inherently wicked, fallen, and depraved). Many of these people were denounced as heretics by the Catholic church. One great resource on Celtic Christianity and its distinctions from other forms of Christianity is "Listening for the Heartbeat of God."

Peace to all,
Kim/Path

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I wouldn't say that Christianity was easily accepted by the Druids, since there is evidence of quite a bit of resistence. I can look up some references if you like, but historians do not think that Christianity was easily accept by the original Druids, although the revival-period Druids blended what they could surmise of the original Pagan beliefs with Christianity and Western Mystery groups such as the Freemasons and Rosicrucians.

However, I believe you are right in the sense that it was not as foreign in its concepts (such as rebirth/resurrection, a god that is self-sacrificing, etc.) as it was to some other indigenous earth-based traditions. The Druids, from what little evidence we have, appear to have absorbed some of the concepts, likewise, Christianity in the UK and Ireland absorbed quite a bit of the traditional Pagan concepts (and still retains that flavor). However, it certainly was the case that the Druids resisted Roman Catholicism, and also that there was plenty of healthy debate between Celtic Christians and Catholics.

The vestiges of the Pagan theology are visible in the sharp divide between some of the concepts in Celtic Christianity and Catholicism/traditional Protestantism. For example, some of the main Celtic Christian figures believed in the essential goodness of humanity (as opposed to the more traditional/conservative view in Christianity that humanity is born inherently wicked, fallen, and depraved). Many of these people were denounced as heretics by the Catholic church. One great resource on Celtic Christianity and its distinctions from other forms of Christianity is "Listening for the Heartbeat of God."

Peace to all,
Kim/Path

Hi Kim,
I did find a little on this ( and I know there is more).

The Druids had a Madonna or Virgin Mother, with a Child in her arms...
and their Sun God was resurrected at the time of the year corresponding to that which modern Christians celebrate Easter.
Secret Teachings of All Ages
By Manly Palmer Hall

Taliesin the Bard and Druid circa AD 550 "Christ the word from the beginning, was from the beginning our teacher and we never lost his teachings. Christianity in Asia was a new thing, but there was never a time when the Druids of Britain held not its doctrine.

”Good brother in Christ,” he [Taliesin] said, ”your God and my God are one and the same.””


Spirit and Art: Pictures of the Transformation of Consciousness
By Van James

Tradition tells of Irish Druids who were aware of the death and resurrection of Christ simply through their "seeing" into the elements. One story tells of King Conchubar inquiring of his Druid Burrach, what the signs of the full moon, darkened sun and earthquakes on Good Friday AD 33 meant. Burach responds "Jesus Christ the Son of God is now being crucified.

Cernussos the Celtic Stag god, was an annunication of the unincarnated Sun Being- Sun Christ.

The subject is thoroughly dealt with in From Round Table to Grail Castle by Isabel Wyatt.

-Br.Bruce

[path_of_one]

Yes, these are the sorts of connections that were relatively easy to forge between a liberal Christianity and the Druidic tradition (at least as much as we can know of it, given the limited resources). Historically, there was resistence to the church, including to St. Patrick and St. Columbo (some of my personal favorites), but the concepts in Christianity were not foreign to them, hence the legend that Christ in his early years went to the British Isles before beginning his ministry in the Middle East.

It is worth noting, though, that Druidry only "works" with certain types of Christianity. Many modern Christian concepts, such as a relatively solid heaven and hell, a lack of reincarnation, original sin, monotheism, and the view of magic as sinful are all generally incompatible with most forms of modern Druidry. Blending the two can work (I do it, as do many others), but it requires, from what I've experienced in myself and others, a rather liberal and independent interpretation of Christianity.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Impqueen

we're getting into semantics here because I chose to be a little jokey about 17th's use of the term 'invasion'. Silly me.

Yeah, that's cool.... It's just one big joke to you! ISN'T IT!$!"£$!..... heh...

Originally Posted by wil

Numerology, summing the numbers until you get a number less than ten. So any multiple of nine ends up back at nine.

......Sorry you are going to have to explain that to me in -simple- terms... What the hell does that prove? lol.........

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Yes, these are the sorts of connections that were relatively easy to forge between a liberal Christianity and the Druidic tradition (at least as much as we can know of it, given the limited resources). Historically, there was resistence to the church, including to St. Patrick and St. Columbo (some of my personal favorites), but the concepts in Christianity were not foreign to them, hence the legend that Christ in his early years went to the British Isles before beginning his ministry in the Middle East.

It is worth noting, though, that Druidry only "works" with certain types of Christianity. Many modern Christian concepts, such as a relatively solid heaven and hell, a lack of reincarnation, original sin, monotheism, and the view of magic as sinful are all generally incompatible with most forms of modern Druidry. Blending the two can work (I do it, as do many others), but it requires, from what I've experienced in myself and others, a rather liberal and independent interpretation of Christianity.

My Christianity is informed by Anthroposophy (among other things):

THE SUN-INITIATION OF THE DRUID PRIEST AND HIS MOON-SCIENCE

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I have noticed... (to my dislike) There isn't much life in the Alternative rooms... So I have picked a random subject lol and I am chucking it out far down the field... Hoping to get some movement at least......

The cunning arts! So, that is just another word for witchcraft or paganism.... Right? Wrong... There are many connections to the stereotypical titles of witchcraft and paganism... But digging deeper, which I am currently doing there is so much in this not just a religion... (I tend to see religion as a hobby) This is a way of life... The old ways.... What has made me EVEN more interested in finding out about the cunning arts is, Devon... Where I live... That was it's bread and butter... Some pretty interesting customs/folklore/just the overall culture... We even had our freaking language/dialect.... I am from Devon and never knew this... lol I must learn it.. Anyway getting distracted slightly... The cunning arts.... What do you know about it? share your thoughts perchance?

If you want the real history, this book is unsurpassed:

Grimm's Teutonic Mythology by the Brother's Grimm

[17th Angel]

That is writen by thee Brothers Grimm?

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

That is writen by thee Brothers Grimm?

Jacob Grimm, one of the famous Brothers Grimm.

You can get a translation by Stallybrass which is now in print. I only have two old volumes.

[17th Angel]

Wow, thanks I'll go huntin'.

[Impqueen]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Yeah, that's cool.... It's just one big joke to you! ISN'T IT!$!"£$!..... heh...

Cackle!