The Concept of Surrender in Buddhism

[earl]

Thank you SL. I've always been quite typo-prone. Sometimes in cases like this I take it as a sign from God to take a break (briefly) from the cyber world Time to give the fingers a rest. earl

[samabudhi]

Maybe I should start another thread in which we could issue our own statements of beliefs and those we reject and why. Don't know if it would help, but it sure would be cathartic

If we suffer in this life, it is from accumulation of bad karma. This results from our own sin; sin, which from the Buddhist view is seen as conceit / wrong view.
By confessing your negative deeds and hiding your good ones, you purify your karma. In Vajrayana, confession takes the form of a meditation on the deity Vajrasattva. Vajrasattva is considered the embodiment of all the Buddhas. In the presence of the pure Vajrasattva, you can confess all your negative karma. If you aren't empowered to practice Vajrasattva, you can still confess to friends or colleagues, but some people find it easier with Vajrasattva.

In a way, confession is just one form of surrender in Buddhism, and an integral part for entry in Vajrayana.
(I had a confession blog on another forum, but I find confessing in writing somehow seals things. When I confess in speech, then Vajrasattva forgives me, and I never have to look back.)

Guru Yoga is the pinnacle of Vajrayana practice, and is the complete surrender to a single, living person (a difficult thing to do) and ultimately, to your own enlightened nature.

[BuzzLY]

As my good friend Commander Peter Taggart of the NSEA Protector has always said:

"Never give up, never surrender!"

~ from the Historical Documents of Galaxy Quest

[BuzzLY]

To infinity and beyond!!!

[InLove]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

By confessing your negative deeds and hiding your good ones, you purify your karma. In Vajrayana, confession takes the form of a meditation on the deity Vajrasattva. Vajrasattva is considered the embodiment of all the Buddhas. In the presence of the pure Vajrasattva, you can confess all your negative karma. If you aren't empowered to practice Vajrasattva, you can still confess to friends or colleagues, but some people find it easier with Vajrasattva....

...In a way, confession is just one form of surrender in Buddhism, and an integral part for entry in Vajrayana.
(I had a confession blog on another forum, but I find confessing in writing somehow seals things. When I confess in speech, then Vajrasattva forgives me, and I never have to look back.)

This is an interesting thought. It reminds me a bit of the "priesthood of the believer" concept in certain Christian philosophies.

InPeace,
InLove

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by InLove

This is an interesting thought. It reminds me a bit of the "priesthood of the believer" concept in certain Christian philosophies.

InPeace,
InLove

I agree that this is very interesting. It is also entirely biblical. (1 John 1:8-9, Matt 6:1) To not confess our sins, we deceive ourselves (and others), and by showcasing our good deeds, we seek deceive others (and ourselves.)

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

I agree that this is very interesting. It is also entirely biblical. (1 John 1:8-9, Matt 6:1) To not confess our sins, we deceive ourselves (and others), and by showcasing our good deeds, we seek deceive others (and ourselves.)

The ego of the sinner, oh Lord........ no.

To infinity and beyond lives the positive, to grow, to expand to be........
and past karma dissolves as a snowflake touched by warm love.

- c -

[InLove]

Hi All--

I really appreciate the comments on this thread. Thanks for the great links, earl! I put the Ascent article in "Favorites". I am beginning to understand the difference (and similarities) between "Zen" and "Shin". The key word here is beginning, for although I have been somewhat exposed to Buddhism through my community, and have been reading about it in CR, I do not yet speak the language well enough to ask questions without some degree of awkwardness. I hope y'all will bear with me as I attempt to learn more.

So, in said awkwardness, here's a question that I can just about bet has been asked over and over throughout the ages. It seems relative to the discussion: Is "karma" simply the consequences of our actions?

The reason I ask is because I am a little confused by the following statement:

Originally Posted by Ciel

The ego of the sinner, oh Lord........ no.

To infinity and beyond lives the positive, to grow, to expand to be........
and past karma dissolves as a snowflake touched by warm love.

Hi Ciel. The reason I am confused is that when I substitute the word "sin" as I understand it for the term "karma" as I currently understand it, I find no conflict with my Christian view, which is that God is Love. (I'm not trying to make my own point here, just trying to understand.) I do realize that karma does not mean "sin", by the way.

See what I mean by my awkwardness? There is so much more I want to ask, but I can't figure out how to say it. Something along the lines of what Seattlegal suggested, I think--SG, would you say that "surrender" would include not focusing on the rewards that come from works, but the love that is generated by them, which would be reward in itself. Is that something like "karma" in your opinion?

Geez, this is deep. I love it.

InPeace,
InLove

[seattlegal]

Vajradhara just posted an Buddhist explaination of karma here.

See what I mean by my awkwardness? There is so much more I want to ask, but I can't figure out how to say it. Something along the lines of what Seattlegal suggested, I think--SG, would you say that "surrender" would include not focusing on the rewards that come from works, but the love that is generated by them, which would be reward in itself. Is that something like "karma" in your opinion?

By surrendering to this love, not only will you will also be rewarded with love, but also, as an unsought after side benefit, with an abundance of what you gave up in surrendering to this love. See Mark 10:23-31.

After all, we are all interdependent. Isn't that what love is all about?

{My apologizes if we are bringing too much Christianity into the Buddhism board. We need to learn the language, like InLove said.}

[InLove]

Thank you so very much, SG. And a nod of thanks to Vajradhara, as well, if you are reading this. I have printed out the material you posted for ongoing reference.

Perhaps my words will become less awkward as I learn more.

InPeace,
InLove

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

I agree that this is very interesting. It is also entirely biblical. (1 John 1:8-9, Matt 6:1) To not confess our sins, we deceive ourselves (and others), and by showcasing our good deeds, we seek deceive others (and ourselves.)

Some showcase good to inspire. And they do.

- c -

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi All--

Hi Ciel. The reason I am confused is that when I substitute the word "sin" as I understand it for the term "karma" as I currently understand it, I find no conflict with my Christian view, which is that God is Love. (I'm not trying to make my own point here, just trying to understand.) I do realize that karma does not mean "sin", by the way.

See what I mean by my awkwardness? There is so much more I want to ask, but I can't figure out how to say it. Something along the lines of what Seattlegal suggested, I think--SG, would you say that "surrender" would include not focusing on the rewards that come from works, but the love that is generated by them, which would be reward in itself. Is that something like "karma" in your opinion?

Geez, this is deep. I love it.

InPeace,
InLove

InLove you already know, the only worthwhile surrender in this life is to ...love.

- c -

[samabudhi]

Is "karma" simply the consequences of our actions?

That would be onesided - only the effect. But karma is intention as well, the cause.
Cause and effect, or thusness. The state of conditionality (causes and conditions) which sentient beings ascribe to.
The law governing samsara and the state of suffering.

I'm making it sound complicated, but it's actually really simple. So simply that only Buddha's can know it fully. The rest of us are swept away by it.

[samabudhi]

By surrendering to this love, not only will you will also be rewarded with love, but also, as an unsought after side benefit, with an abundance of what you gave up in surrendering to this love. See Mark 10:23-31.

After all, we are all interdependent. Isn't that what love is all about?

{My apologizes if we are bringing too much Christianity into the Buddhism board. We need to learn the language, like InLove said.}

As you say, common language is important. For some Buddhists, like Milarepa for example, 'love' is just covert egoism. If you're in love with someone or something, it's only because you see aspects of your self reflected in them.

So you're more likely to hear Buddhists talking about karuna (compassion) and maitri/metta (loving-kindness).
Whole treatises have been written on their meanings alone and more practice done just understanding what these terms really mean.

I think it's important to consider the words we use well, otherwise they end up with slanted meanings, and then understanding between people is lost. The sentimental tones love and compassion have picked up are good examples.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

That would be onesided - only the effect. But karma is intention as well, the cause.
Cause and effect, or thusness. The state of conditionality (causes and conditions) which sentient beings ascribe to.
The law governing samsara and the state of suffering.

I'm making it sound complicated, but it's actually really simple. So simply that only Buddha's can know it fully. The rest of us are swept away by it.

Well, if you take the concept of linear time out of the equation, where effect follows cause, it is easy to make the connection.

Originally Posted by samabudhi

As you say, common language is important. For some Buddhists, like Milarepa for example, 'love' is just covert egoism. If you're in love with someone or something, it's only because you see aspects of your self reflected in them.

So you're more likely to hear Buddhists talking about karuna (compassion) and maitri/metta (loving-kindness).
Whole treatises have been written on their meanings alone and more practice done just understanding what these terms really mean.

I think it's important to consider the words we use well, otherwise they end up with slanted meanings, and then understanding between people is lost. The sentimental tones love and compassion have picked up are good examples.

OK, it seems that both "karuna" and "metta" would both be part of the intention aspect of "karma." "Karuna" being more associated (attached?) with "righteousness," (like the Christian eleos?) and "metta" being more unattached, (like the Christian agape?) So, would "karuna" be love with the intention to set things right, while "metta" would be love with the intention that things continue along in their rightful manner?

I've noticed that karuna and metta are two of the four sublime states:

• Metta/Maitri: loving-kindness towards all; the hope that a person will be well
• Karuna: compassion; the hope that a person's sufferings will diminish
• Mudita: altruistic joy in the accomplishments of a person, oneself or other
• Upekkha/Upeksha: equanimity, or learning to accept both loss and gain, praise and blame, success and failure with detachment, equally, for oneself and for others

Wouldn't Upekkha/Upeksha be considered to be surrender?