The Christian Trinity

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

The Father is greater than the Son.. Jesus was fully man.. and fully God..

John 17:1-5 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He shouldgive eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Yes the father is greater than the son , and Jesus was in the heavens with his father before he came to the earth. he was even with his father in the heavens before the world was .infact Jesus was with his father when the earth was created because Jesus created all things with power from God

(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.




(John 8:58) Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."

(Colossians 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

[Quahom1]

[quote]

Originally Posted by mee

Yes the father is greater than the son , and Jesus was in the heavens with his father before he came to the earth. he was even with his father in the heavens before the world was .infact Jesus was with his father when the earth was created because Jesus created all things with power from God.

True and not true, since Jesus is God, He has the power.

(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was GOD.

convenient little flip of words...plus or minus an indefinite article or two

(John 8:58) Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."

Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am .

Spoken in the present tense, not in the past, changes the whole thought...

(Colossians 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: note the colon after the sentence, also note the word is creature, not creation...plus the thought does not end at the word creature, as the colon indicates a pause to an extended sentence or train of thought.

No wonder you believe as you do. Your Bible is telling a different story. What bothers me, is that it takes away from the full Glory that is Jesus Christ. It removes Him from the status of God and makes Him a little "god". But then, isn't that what the word "devil" means as well? A little god...?

You place the emphasis on God the Father, and secondary importance on God the Son, and you dismiss God the Holy Spirit as mere primal force.

That is what other non-Christian faiths do as well. Christian faith, is Christ centered faith. Not Father God centered. So if your emphasis is on the Father, then it's hard to call oneself a Christian, in the basest definition of the word.

This is fine, and you are entitled to your own view of course. But you are also attempting to undermine the Christ centered theme of this forum. You are in affect, proselytising to Christians to come over to your way of thinking.

I am uncomfortable with this, as it begins to cross the line of the COC here at CR.

v/r

Q

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1]

True and not true, since Jesus is God, He has the power.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was GOD.

convenient little flip of words...plus or minus a participle or two




Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am .

Spoken in the present tense, not in the past, changes the whole thought...



Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: note the colon after the sentence, also note the word is creature, not creation...plus the thought does not end at the word creature, as the colon indicates a pause to an extended sentence or train of thought.

No wonder you believe as you do. Your Bible is telling a different story. What bothers me, is that it takes away from the full Glory that is Jesus Christ. It removes Him from the status of God and makes Him a little "god". But then, isn't that what the word "devil" means as well? A little god...?

You place the emphasis on God the Father, and secondary importance on God the Son, and you dismiss God the Holy Spirit as mere primal force.

That is what other non-Christian faiths do as well. Christian faith, is Christ centered faith. Not Father God centered. So if your emphasis is on the Father, then it's hard to call oneself a Christian, in the basest definition of the word.

This is fine, and you are entitled to your own view of course. But you are also attempting to undermine the Christ centered theme of this forum. You are in affect, proselytising to Christians to come over to your way of thinking.

I am uncomfortable with this, as it begins to cross the line of the COC here at CR.

v/r

Q

Jesus Christ is the central figure in the out working of Jehovah Gods purpose for the earth .and as a christian, as JW are.that is my belief . if others dont agree with that belief that is their choice . how on earth can i make others believe me . i am quite sure they are strong in their beliefs?the same way that i am ?why do you feel uncomfy.
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life John 3;16

(Romans 5:8) But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.




(Romans 8:32) He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things?

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him

[Eternal_Life]

Originally Posted by mee

The question of the Jews ( John 8verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence

A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: "The verb [ei·mi´] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go´ ei·mi´] (Jo. 8:58)."—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394. so we have to get the context right in the translations and verse 57 clears it up .so Jesus wasnt saying he was Jehovah God he was truthfully saying he was before abraham because Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens before coming to earth so he had been before abraham, Jesus never claimed to be God he claimed to be Gods son

Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been

Joh 8:58—"before Abraham came into existence, I have been"

Gr., πριν᾿Αβρααµ γενέσθαιεγω ειµί

(prin A·bra·am´ ge·ne´sthai e·go´ ei·mi´)

Once again you revert back to the JW's guide to misunderstanind the Bible, and once again you're wrong. Jesus said "I am", which is e-go' ei-me in the Greek. The Jews understood what Jesus was saying as they tried to kill him for saying it. Do you HONESTLY think they was going to stone Jesus because he said he was "before" Abraham? Come on man, acknowledge Jesus as who he claimed to be - GOD!

[Quahom1]

[quote]
[quote=mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Jesus Christ is the central figure in the out working of Jehovah Gods purpose for the earth .and as a christian, as JW are.that is my belief . if others dont agree with that belief that is their choice . how on earth can i make others believe me . i am quite sure they are strong in their beliefs?the same way that i am ?why do you feel uncomfy.

I believe your way of posting is more akin to a BLOG. And as such should have its own thread. I think perhaps your message would be better presented in a forum such as Oakie's. You do not debate, nor discuss. You simply present canned information as your response. You are not interested in dialogue, only spreading your own sect's agenda. You ask no questions, as you are not interested in others' beliefs...only your own. You put down others' beliefs as wrong, and fallible. You present your bible as the ONLY book without corruption, and your 6 million followers as the ONLY people with the potential for going to Heaven, and your followers are going to stand in judgement over all of man at the end of time...

You are not Christian, you are something "greater" A Jehovah's witness, and you are attempting to enforce non-Christian beliefs here, and as such you are attempting to disrupt CR's forums by ignoring the COC. I have asked you to stop doing this on several occasions before, and you choose to ignore my requests as if they are irrelevent. All that seems to matter to you is to push the Jehovah's Wittness perspective.

Furthermore you deliberately attack those with a strong belief in the Trinity, or Jesus as GOD, a place you by your own volition have no business being at. You don't believe in it...You've stated your point. Now step away, so that we who do can dialogue on the issue.

One of the most important things here at CR is keeping an open mind. You have no intention of being open minded, and you have taken advantage of the fact that others are trying to be so. It is sneaky, and unaccpetable.

You will stop this Mee...


v/r

Q

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1][quote]

Originally Posted by mee

I believe your way of posting is more akin to a BLOG. And as such should have its own thread. I think perhaps your message would be better presented in a forum such as Oakie's. You do not debate, nor discuss. You simply present canned information as your response. You are not interested in dialogue, only spreading your own sect's agenda. You ask no questions, as you are not interested in others' beliefs...only your own. You put down others' beliefs as wrong, and fallible. You present your bible as the ONLY book without corruption, and your 6 million followers as the ONLY people with the potential for going to Heaven, and your followers are going to stand in judgement over all of man at the end of time...

You are not Christian, you are something "greater" A Jehovah's witness, and you are attempting to enforce non-Christian beliefs here, and as such you are attempting to disrupt CR's forums by ignoring the COC. I have asked you to stop doing this on several occasions before, and you choose to ignore my requests as if they are irrelevent. All that seems to matter to you is to push the Jehovah's Wittness perspective.

Furthermore you deliberately attack those with a strong belief in the Trinity, or Jesus as GOD, a place you by your own volition have no business being at. You don't believe in it...You've stated your point. Now step away, so that we who do can dialogue on the issue.

One of the most important things here at CR is keeping an open mind. You have no intention of being open minded, and you have taken advantage of the fact that others are trying to be so. It is sneaky, and unaccpetable.

You will stop this Mee...


v/r

Q

when have i attacked any one ,i only put over bible truth do you think that is an attack?many times people say that i am wrong that is ok by me , if a person believes that their belief is correct and inline with the bible it will not bother them or should i say it should not bother them.i believe that all mankind have the hope of everlasting life if they so choose and yes i agree it is right to be openminded .to be a christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ and one of the things that Jesus did was to make known his fathers name
Jesus taught his followers to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified [or, "be held sacred; be treated as holy"]." (Matt. 6:9, ) On the final night of his earthly life, in prayer to his heavenly Father, Jesus also said: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them." (John 17:6, 26) This, in fact, was Jesus’ primary purpose in coming to earth

As "the Faithful Witness," Jesus was outstandingly a proclaimer of God’s Kingdom. He emphatically said: "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43) yes true christians are followers of Jesus christ

[Quahom1]

[quote=mee][quote=Quahom1]

when have i attacked any one ,i only put over bible truth do you think that is an attack?many times people say that i am wrong that is ok by me , if a person believes that their belief is correct and inline with the bible it will not bother them or should i say it should not bother them.i believe that all mankind have the hope of everlasting life if they so choose and yes i agree it is right to be openminded .to be a christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ and one of the things that Jesus did was to make known his fathers name
Jesus taught his followers to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified [or, "be held sacred; be treated as holy"]." (Matt. 6:9, ) On the final night of his earthly life, in prayer to his heavenly Father, Jesus also said: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them." (John 17:6, 26) This, in fact, was Jesus’ primary purpose in coming to earth

As "the Faithful Witness," Jesus was outstandingly a proclaimer of God’s Kingdom. He emphatically said: "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43) yes true christians are followers of Jesus christ

when have i attacked any one ,i only put over bible truth do you think that is an attack?

I for one do not believe as you do. Now, quote something to try and put me in my place as you are wont to do...

Get it? I believe in the Trinity with all my being. Yet you do everything you can to trip me up. Not just me. anyone who does not believe as you do. You attempt to throw stumbling stones, for the tripped to do what, grab on to your way of belief?

Cheap shot.

Q

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1][quote=mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I for one do not believe as you do. Now, quote something to try and put me in my place as you are wont to do...

Get it? I believe in the Trinity with all my being. Yet you do everything you can to trip me up. Not just me. anyone who does not believe as you do. You attempt to throw stumbling stones, for the tripped to do what, grab on to your way of belief?

Cheap shot.

Q

maybe you are mistaking stumbling stones for stepping stones ,but as you say you believe in the trinity that is fine by me , that is your choice. i dont believe in the trinity because according to my believe in the bible it is nota bible teaching and is not a christian teaching . but again if others believe it thats fine. i dont understand what the problem is . why are you upset, i am not upset because others put over their view that the trinity is their believe. and there are more people that believe in the trinity on this thread than those who do not believe so you should feel that your numbers are giving you a nice comfy feeling .dont worry those who want to believe in the trinity will believe it . me putting over my beliefs will not make any diffarence to others beliefs.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Hmm

Matthew 4:6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.' " 7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' " 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " 11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.

Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted by satan... and Jesus just happened to say to the devil that you shall not tempt the Lord your God. Glory to the Lord forever and ever! Out of His own mouth.

ohhh and we are to only worship the Lord our God?

Matthew 2:2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him."

Matthew 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."

MAtthew 9:18 While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, "My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live."

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."

MAtthew 15:25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, help me!"

Mark 5:6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him

Luke 24:52 And they worshiped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

John 9:38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.

John 10:30 I and My Father are one."

out of his own mouth.

Mee you forgot this post... what about this one? Im not letting you skip over this one twice... have it and do your best to explain away how Jesus Christ is worthy of worship.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Mee you forgot this post... what about this one? Im not letting you skip over this one twice... have it and do your best to explain away how Jesus Christ is worthy of worship.

seems i am told off if i do i might leave a stumbing stone.

[Faithfulservant]

I just want Q and eternal to know that JW's in the JW faith have to spend so many hours a week witnessing.. I think he is getting time for his posting here. They also decrease their chance of becoming one of the 144,000 faithful if they arent good JW's.. Also they will use the watchtower bible if the KJV doesnt use the wording that their book uses. It is likely he is witnessing so aggressively out of fear. Yes they believe Christianity is babylon..they believe that we are hated by God and will receive His wrath. They believe that any animosity that we show them is to be expected and that they should be prepared for it.

The reason they believe the watchtower bible is better is because their leaders who have no formal training in hebrew greek or aramaic translations... translated their version of the bible and said that it was the correct translation.. they even created a new Greek past perfect tense in their translating.. which any greek scholar can tell you is not in existance.

They are also not allowed to read anything that goes against their faith because that to them is tatamount to letting the evil one influence you... so you cant really witness to them.. their leaders have pretty much solved that problem by making rules against it.

I feel sorry for them.. they are bound by satan. We war not against flesh.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I just want Q and eternal to know that JW's in the JW faith have to spend so many hours a week witnessing.. I think he is getting time for his posting here. They also decrease their chance of becoming one of the 144,000 faithful if they arent good JW's.. Also they will use the watchtower bible if the KJV doesnt use the wording that their book uses. It is likely he is witnessing so aggressively out of fear. Yes they believe Christianity is babylon..they believe that we are hated by God and will receive His wrath. They believe that any animosity that we show them is to be expected and that they should be prepared for it.

The reason they believe the watchtower bible is better is because their leaders who have no formal training in hebrew greek or aramaic translations... translated their version of the bible and said that it was the correct translation.. they even created a new Greek past perfect tense in their translating.. which any greek scholar can tell you is not in existance.

They are also not allowed to read anything that goes against their faith because that to them is tatamount to letting the evil one influence you... so you cant really witness to them.. their leaders have pretty much solved that problem by making rules against it.

I feel sorry for them.. they are bound by satan. We war not against flesh.

seems like i was right you are being misled to believe wrong things about JW this is my free time, because i was looking after my mum for the last 3 years but she is no longer here she is now awaiting the resurrection in a sleep like state so i have lots more time to please myself . and coming on this board is something that i like doing believe it or not.mind you going on the door to door work keeps me a bitfitter than sitting on the computer lol ....thats not to say that i dont go on the door to door work because i do. as the early disciples did the same
while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house...acts 20;20

And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus...Acts 5;42

(Acts 20:27) for I have not held back from telling YOU all the counsel of God

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come..matthew 24;14 Oh dear i feel a telling off brewing oh and by the way i am not one of the 144000so no worries there

[Faithfulservant]

Mee if I send you the links Im getting all this information from will you be so kind as to look it over and tell me what you think?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Mee if I send you the links Im getting all this information from will you be so kind as to look it over and tell me what you think?

i have looked at that many links from people who are opposed to JW that i have seen them all before .so i will not waste more of my time looking at more . before i became a JW 20 years ago i had loads of books from former witnesses but the truth of Gods word out shone them all .now i have been set free .thanks any way. i feel it is more important to do the preaching of the Good news ,than to waste time on reading things i have already read.
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come matthew 24;14

[Eternal_Life]

I will be praying for the JWs to come out of their cults and to have their eyes open. I will pray that those traped into this cult will reconize how the JWs have been making false prophecies since they came out and RUN to Jesus! I will pray that they come to understand that Salvation is a free gift from God, and that no amount of knocking on doors at 8 in the morning will get them into good graces with God. I will pray that they see themselves as sinners in need of a Savior. And, I'll pray that they come to see God's love extended to them by wanting them to be apart of his Family. Its not just for 140,000 people guys, its for ALL who choose to be redeemed by the Savior. On that note, I would like to say to any Jehovah's Witness here that you can continue to witness, but PLEASE witness the truth about Jesus, and not what you've learned through your secret society...PLEASE!! If you witness the way the Bible teaches, you'll be doing God's will.

With Love!!

P.S. Dont take what I said as persecution, its not. Its just hard truth.