the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

[E99]

Apart from us JW's wedging our reinforced footwear in the householders door, most of the criticism of Jehovahs witnesses comes about because of the translations taken from the bible that many love to hate… the New world translation bible. There are a few websites that criticise the NWT. The 'attacks' are quite prolific on religious forums, This one is generally passive. Forums, where you'd expect more decorum, like christianforums.com, are fairly aggressive. 'Unorthodox' religions such as the LDS get a regular pasting.

People picking out bits and pieces from anti NWT sites end up promoting half baked truths about our beliefs, and also fractured ideas about the scriptures, but the truth can be found by looking at Gods own scriptural texts...especially so, by looking at the usage of the original Greek and Hebrew words, and the grammar used.


YHWH: Transliteration to the name Jehovah:


Taken from the tetragrammaton.... YHWH. The name Jehovah has been taken up by Jehovahs witnesses, however, the Anglicized or Germanic variation of the name was used in the form 'Jehovah' in many other bibles prior to the NWT.
The name Jehovah is not a barbarism. It has already many of the connotations needed for the proper name, of the covenant God of Israel. There is no other word which can compare with it.

Scripturally, there has never been any question as to the name of the true God. When God spoke to Moses, explaining that He would use him to take Israel out of Egyptian slavery, Moses asked a question:
"When I come to the Israelites and say to them, "The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me, What is His name ? What shall I say to them ? " God answered: "Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: The Lord [Hebrew, = YHWH = Yahoweh, or, since the 13th century C.E., Jehovah], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: This shall be My name forever, this My appellation for all eternity."
Jehovah is making a distinction, who He is, wanting to define Himself to those that Moses was going to approach, by making a recognition by usage of His name. Similarly, we recognise his name today. He wishes this to be so...to recognise and use "My name forever".



Gods name was virtually wiped out of the scriptures. However, In time, it gradually came back into use. In 1278 it appeared in Latin in the work by Pugio fidei (Dagger of Faith), by Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk. Raymundus Martini used the spelling Yohoua.
Centuries prior to this there are a number of references to the name of God, e.g. In a letter written at Rome, 384 C.E., Jerome states:

"The ninth [name of God] is the Tetragrammaton, which they considered [a·nek·pho'ne·ton], that is, unspeakable, and it is written with these letters, Iod, He, Vau, He.

Within this sentence is Gods name, and apart from other sources, it gives a reason as to why Gods name was omitted from the NT. It is commonly recognised that Gods name was taken out of the bible. We have reintroduced it.

Regarding the other form of Gods name that many recognise is... Yahweh. "Yahweh" is not the correct pronunciation at all, but that the Anglicized form "Jehovah" is quite in line with the common practice of pronouncing biblical names whose pronunciation is unknown. In English, Yahweh is not of use if communicating to an English audience which is of importance in an English translation, It has been shown that the original was not bisyllable "Yahweh" but a trisyllabic one "Yehowah."... A Hebrew approxiamation. Jehovah then would be a correct English trisyllable transliteration of the original.

A two-syllable pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton as "Yahweh" would not allow for the o vowel sound to exist as part of God’s name. But in the many biblical names that incorporate the divine name, this middle vowel sound appears in both the original and the shortened forms, as in Jehonathan and Jonathan. Thus,
Quote:
Professor Buchanan says regarding the divine name:
"In no case is the vowel oo or oh omitted. The word was sometimes abbreviated as ‘Ya,’ but never as ‘Ya-weh.’ . . . When the Tetragrammaton was pronounced in one syllable it was ‘Yah’ or ‘Yo.’ When it was pronounced in three syllables it would have been ‘Yahowah’ or ‘Yahoowah.’ If it was ever abbreviated to
two syllables it would have been ‘Yaho.’(not Yahweh) -Biblical Archaeology Review.
The name Jehovah misrepresents Yahweh no more than Jeremiah misrepresents Yirmeyahu. The connotations of Isaiah and Jeremiah are not questioned. "Jeremiah" or "Isaiah" have become so familiarised to such an extent, that we can say it is not being misrepresentive to use Jehovah, just as it is not being misrepresentive to use names such as "Jeremiah"

Translating names of other foreign gods in the scriptures as examples, Baal, Ashtaroth, Dagon, or in the translation of a classical author, we would not be troubled by using the names Jupiter, Zeus or Artemis which would be the Anglicized renderings of the names of these gods, and why then should the name of the Only True God Jehovah be any different ?


Jehovah wanted us to use his name, so as to identify the people that have got close to him. Jehovah is a proper name. God is a title, not much unlike president. That is why the term god can be linked to angels, and even humans in the bible, and of course to false gods. His name was to be recognised and to be defined from the title of god, as can be seen in the 'lords' prayer, Matthew 6:9: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." .... The father, God, wanted his name to be made known, used and honoured.

The English form reasonably preserves the Hebrew four letters YHWH in English. The name "Jehovah" then would be the best form for an English Bible to use as it would mean something to, be logical, of sense to the readers, and hearers of it in English.

Would it have been God's desire that when His Word, the Bible, was to be translated into other languages that his name should be obliterated, unused because it might offend or lose its meaning ?

There is no indication that this is the case, when God Himself confused the "tongues" of post-flood Man he set the scene for his name to be known with different names, hence, by a different pronounciation and form than He was originally known.

How can we show honour to the one true God and creator that is named Jehovah in his inspired writings ? By using his name, as he has always intended us to do.

Shalohm.

[BlaznFattyz]

"The name Jehovah misrepresents Yahweh no more than Jeremiah misrepresents Yirmeyahu. The connotations of Isaiah and Jeremiah are not questioned. "Jeremiah" or "Isaiah" have become so familiarised to such an extent, that we can say it is not being misrepresentive to use Jehovah, just as it is not being misrepresentive to use names such as "Jeremiah""

i understand your point, but then it contradicts itself, try to understand my point..

true, peoples names get translated into different languages and have a different spelling and pronunciation, but to say gods name and peoples names get changed in the same sentence is not right, especially when you say hallowed by thy name. i mean some dude, just changed this hallowed name from its original form. this isnt about some dude named jeremiah, this is about gods name. whatever is gods name in its original language should stay that way. if it is yhwh and the true spelling has been lost, then so be it. if it is yahweh, then it should stay that way.

[BlaznFattyz]

also, to put this in perspective. i know this is a forum, so thats what we do, discuss. however, we should try not to lose sight of the fact that believing in jesus christ and asking for forgiveness is the most important thing. the world is not going to start calling god by his correct name today or tomorrow, or next week. so there comes a time to stop debating and just be kind and pray for each other.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

also, to put this in perspective. i know this is a forum, so thats what we do, discuss. however, we should try not to lose sight of the fact that believing in jesus christ and asking for forgiveness is the most important thing. the world is not going to start calling god by his correct name today or tomorrow, or next week. so there comes a time to stop debating and just be kind and pray for each other.

The evening before Jesus died, he was praying to God in the hearing of his disciples, and once again they heard him highlight the importance of God’s name. He said: "I have made your name known to the men you took from the world to give me." Later, he repeated: "I have made your name known to them and will continue to make it known."—John 17:6, 26, JB. so Jesus himself made known his fathers name , and as followers of Jesus christ we should follow the example of Jesus by making Jehovahs name known.

Father, glorify your name." Therefore a voice came out of heaven: "I both glorified [it] and will glorify [it] again.....John 12;28......so if it was Good enough for Jesus to use Gods name its good enough for me. so really there is no debate about Gods name , Jesus is clear about that, He wants it to be made known, and nothing or no one can prevent Gods purpose from being acomplished that is why he has taken out a people for his name.

Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name Acts 15;14 and Jesus himself told us how to pray

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified

Or, "be held sacred; be treated as holy. but most people do not even recognize Gods name let alone pray to him ,we should use Gods nameand use it in our prayers not forgetting to do this through the name of Jesus christ ,as Jesus is the mediator between God and men

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all— 1 timothy 2;5-6 so how can we pray to God if we dont even use his nameor even know what that name is?

[BlaznFattyz]

regardless if his true name is the holy name yhwh, if you are not sure, god knows this, he already knows what you are going to pray about, and what is in your heart. reciting things, making alot of useless body movements, calling him yahweh, or the incorrect or correct english translation of jehovah or just simply using universally accepted and mainstream god as both his name and title is not as important as fearing and loving him and believing in his son and asking for forgiveness.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

regardless if his true name is the holy name yhwh, if you are not sure, god knows this, he already knows what you are going to pray about, and what is in your heart. reciting things, making alot of useless body movements, calling him yahweh, or the incorrect or correct english translation of jehovah or just simply using universally accepted and mainstream god as both his name and title is not as important as fearing and loving him and believing in his son and asking for forgiveness.

For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Romans 10;14-15......and i could add to that by saying how would they know his name if it is taken out of the bible

[truthseeker]

To piggyback on Quahom's point, I think it is proper to be careful of when and how we address God. Jews, who apparently are the first to know His name, are careful of the usage of His name in reverence. Also, I think the written Hebrew language doesn't use consonants anyway.

I've come to understand in a short amount of time that everybody here has a purpose. In religion, we take on a spiritual purpose. I'd like to think, at this time, that JWs are quite fitting in the spiritual purpose. They appear to be, to me, a mobilization of the sword and shield for the end time. Kind of like soldiers, if I can respectfully be so bold. I guess the NWT could be a fitting translation for Christian soldiers of the end time. Some of us have some purposes and other purposes but even for that purpose, one must be properly educated for such a task. I guess JW seek to do that.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Romans 10;14-15......and i could add to that by saying how would they know his name if it is taken out of the bible

i think you are changing the subject by addressing what jews in the old testament did and what we do. i am concerned with what we do now, and to be saved you have to ask jesus christ our Lord for forgiveness.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

... Also, I think the written Hebrew language doesn't use consonants anyway.

I've come to understand in a short amount of time that everybody here has a purpose. In religion, we take on a spiritual purpose. I'd like to think, at this time, that JWs are quite fitting in the spiritual purpose. They appear to be, to me, a mobilization of the sword and shield for the end time. Kind of like soldiers, if I can respectfully be so bold. I guess the NWT could be a fitting translation for Christian soldiers of the end time. Some of us have some purposes and other purposes but even for that purpose, one must be properly educated for such a task. I guess JW seek to do that.

Interesting point Truth. I never looked at it that way, but it makes sense. An awful lot of sense...

Mee is a soldier...hmmm who would've thought?

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i think you are changing the subject by addressing what jews in the old testament did and what we do. i am concerned with what we do now, and to be saved you have to ask jesus christ our Lord for forgiveness.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.John 17;3 NIV.... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent....JOHN 17;3...KJV
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ...john 17;3So acording to this verse we need to take in knowledge about Jehovah God and Jesus christ ,not just Jesus. it seems to me that by taking the name of God away from the bible and putting LORD where it should be Jehovah,this only serves to push the name of the true God into the back ground . in the verse in romans 10;13 it should be Jehovah .

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Interesting point Truth. I never looked at it that way, but it makes sense. An awful lot of sense...

Mee is a soldier...hmmm who would've thought?

LOL
but God chose the foolish things of the world .... 1 corinthians 1;27 yes thats me, i am sure of that one..lol

Above all things, take up the large shield of faith, with which YOU will be able to quench all the wicked one’s burning missiles. Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word Ephesians 6;16-17

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.John 17;3 NIV.... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent....JOHN 17;3...KJV
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ...john 17;3So acording to this verse we need to take in knowledge about Jehovah God and Jesus christ ,not just Jesus. it seems to me that by taking the name of God away from the bible and putting LORD where it should be Jehovah,this only serves to push the name of the true God into the back ground . in the verse in romans 10;13 it should be Jehovah .

yes believe in jesus and god, of course, i thought that went without saying. and to quote "it should be Jehovah" i would say it can be jehovah if you truly believe that, or yahweh by using hebrew, the language in which gods name was spoken to his people, or just simply calling his name god.

a messianic jewish scriptural view:
"Hebrew name YHWH "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey" in the Jewish Scriptures. Many have guessed, with saying it is Jehovah or Yaweh, but it is said by the Jewish people traditionally and historically, that it is unpronounceable. In fact it is traditionally said that only the High Priest knew this trusted pronounciation and that it was lost after the destruction of the Temple. Out of respect and fear for mispronouncing His Name, the word Adonia (Lord), God, and the expression HaShem (The Name) is said when His name is seen in the Hebrew Bible and when used in Jewish synagogue prayers, and writings, etc. When vowell marks were added to the Jewish Bible to help Jews and others to be able to read and speak the text accurately, no vowell marks were given for His Name "Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey". I know most all English translations of the Bible use Jehovah. Personally I think this is wrong. "

Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple.

Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck.

"JW also admit that Jehovah is not the correct name "down through the centuries, the correct pronunciation of the divine name in Hebrew has been lost. Hence, it is uncertain what vowels should be used to fill in the name."(WatchTower Feb.1, 1980)."

they said lost but if one goes to jewish literature:
"THE UNIVERSAL JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA says "JEHOVAH is an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton a four lettered name of God, made up of the Hebrew letters Yod He Vav He. The word "JEHOVAH" therefore is a misreading for which there is no warrant and which makes no sense in Hebrew" The Hebrew letters point to a Yod Y the more correct pronunciation is Yahweh or some form deriving from the same consonants. For example Yah is used in its shorter form in Ex.15:2 and 17:15, Isa.12:2 and Ps.118:14 ."

[mee]

In the Hebrew language it is written יהוה. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original "Old Testament," or Hebrew Scriptures.

The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah´ meaning "to become," and actually signifies "He Causes to Become." Thus, God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name.

[E99]

Hello Blaznfattz

Your QUOTE......
"true, peoples names get translated into different languages and have a different spelling and pronunciation, but to say gods name and peoples names get changed in the same sentence is not right, especially when you say hallowed be thy name. i mean some dude, just changed this hallowed name from its original form."

If you think that its not right to change the name, (Which it hasn't....its a transliteration,) look at how everything seems to change in the whole translated sentence.(Below.)

Its not only a name that gets 'changed', what also changes is the syntax, grammar, words etc.... in an attempt to get the Anglicized meaning by changing to the English syntax, grammar and words. It has to be done....Here is how it starts out to its to finish ....The first part of the 'Lords' model prayer....

Matthew 6:9

Greek.....................

Hout O oun proseuchomai su pater ego ho en ho ouranos hagiazo ho onoma su.

Which translates nearly word for word................

Thus then be-praying you father of us the in the heavens let be holyized the name of you.

Put into English (Ye olde English. KJV Authorised version).............

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Modern 'cool dude' version. ( New linear translation).......

Pray like this: Our father in heaven, may your name be honored.

Its about getting the true sense of the meaning from one language translated to another language. It is true of the grammar etc. and also of the words. The meaning is not lost, but the words, obviously, have completely changed. The Anglicized name Jehovah in other verses simply follows this transliteration tradition.....
Father for pater. Jehovah for YHWH.


Your QUOTE:

" this isnt about some dude named jeremiah, this is about gods name. whatever is gods name in its original language should stay that way. if it is yhwh and the true spelling has been lost, then so be it. if it is yahweh, then it should stay that way."



If you believe that, then you should believe it of the name Jesus. You believe that he was God also ? So I'm curious as to why you think that the name Jehovah should not be used.

I have a question....If you believe that the Anglicized name Jehovah should not be used because of the possible offence that it could cause to Jehovah God and others, mainly due to the divine status of God, then should you not also discount the usage of the Anglicized name Jesus ?
I suspect that you are trinitarian, so you put Jesus on an equal standing of divinity with that of Jehovah, so surely, in your view, the Anglicized name Jesus could be equally offensive to God and others. If indeed he is God ?
(I'm not putting this up to start off a side track debate on the trinity, as so often happens, but to question the usage of an Anglicized proper name for God, .....Gods name where known within the triunity concept...Jesus or Jehovah.)
The fact is, even the name "Jesus" does not appear in any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible. Why ? Because Jesus is an Anglicized form of the Hebrew word Yeshua or Yehoshua and the Greek word Iesous.



Hi Mee.....Brother, (or Sister ! ?)

Your QUOTE:

"but God chose the foolish things of the world .... 1 corinthians 1;27 yes thats me, i am sure of that one..lol."

Same here. One unfortunate prophetic statement that can be proved !

[BlaznFattyz]

if you think you are saying it right and believe it to be the name im sure thats all that matters to you. no matter what anyone says (even if jewish/hebrew scholars know the correct name, and jw recognize jehovah is a misspelling of ywhw) it wont stop you, so it doesnt matter really what anyone says.

the issue between mainstream christianity and jw may be something alittle more important than that. everytime jw's take out what the original authors wrote and substitute it with jehova, it isnt just the name, its the conotations behind it. that being jw's not believing in the trinity the same way as the jesus stated that he his father and the holy spirit are one. so when a jw says "jehova god" (even when that pairing is no where in the bible) they are talking about something different then when christians say refer to god our lord.