Tanya Question for NaN

[dauer]

NaN,

I put down Steinsaltz' book on Tanya for a while but I am really wondering how Chabad's current theology understands this issue. So this is the quote from Tanya:

The souls of the nations of the world, however, derive from the impure kelipot which contain no good whatsoever, as it is written in Etz Chayyim, Portal 49, ch. 3, that all the good that the nations do, is done from selfish motives. As the Talmud comments on the verse, "The kindness of the nations is sin" --that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their own self-glorification and so on.

Is this understood as a product of the times or is there meaning derived from this? Thanks.

Dauer

[NewAgeNerd]

Haha! Perhaps I have mislead you regarding my expertise. I pray alternatively at Chabad temples and Orthodox temples. That is the extent of my affiliation with Chabad. I love the Chassidics I have met there, but I have yet to delve into Tanya. If I remember though, I will take this quote with me next time I meet with the Chabad Rabbi and ask him in person.

[bananabrain]

there you have my objection to hassidut and chaba"d in a nutshell. apart from this soul-structure thing, i don't find their beliefs especially objectionable. but this one i just can't sign up to. and re the gemara quote, it's not the authoritative statement i believe. what's the reference?

i believe (at least after having read the tanya and the steinsaltz commentary "opening the tanya") that it is not impossible for the "nations" to do tiqqun and cast off their qelippot. nonetheless, it's still effectively chauvinistic.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dauer]

Originally Posted by nan

Haha! Perhaps I have mislead you regarding my expertise. I pray alternatively at Chabad temples and Orthodox temples. That is the extent of my affiliation with Chabad. I love the Chassidics I have met there, but I have yet to delve into Tanya. If I remember though, I will take this quote with me next time I meet with the Chabad Rabbi and ask him in person

Oh, okay. Baal teshuva? The chabad hasidim seem generally very friendly, but the Tanya says some things that don't seem so friendly.

Originally Posted by bananabrain

. but this one i just can't sign up to. and re the gemara quote, it's not the authoritative statement i believe. what's the reference?

Bava Batra 10b comment on proverbs 14:34

i believe (at least after having read the tanya and the steinsaltz commentary "opening the tanya") that it is not impossible for the "nations" to do tiqqun and cast off their qelippot. nonetheless, it's still effectively chauvinistic.

I haven't gotten that far. I put it down and am reading some other books.

Dauer

[dauer]

Bananabrain,

if you have a chance would you be willing to check that gemara for me? I don't have access to it. It's Bava Batra 10b, on proverbs 14:34. From Tanya:

As the Talmud comments on the verse, "The kindness of the nations is sin" --that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their own self-glorification and so on.

If you do have the time, thanks. Does that "and so on" look like censorship to you or just terse writing? I've seen a lot of censorship by Bratslavers of their texts in reading Tormented Master. I suppose neither of us is qualified to begin to answer such a question.

Dauer