symbols in worship

[mee]

the Babylonian Ea, a god of the waters, was depicted as a man covered with a body that was part fish; the Syrian Atargatis was a fish goddess; and in Egypt certain kinds of fish were viewed as sacred and were even mummified. Such fish worship was, of course, prohibited in God’s law to Israel.—De 4:15-18.


What about the figure of a fish, which appears on some ancient artifacts associated with Christians



Objects dated as far back as the second century C.E. have been found bearing this figure along with the Greek word for fish, ICHTHÝS.

This is understood by many as a cipher for the Greek expression Iesous CHristos THeou Yios Soter, meaning "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." Is the fish a truly Christian symbol?


According to The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, fish frequently appear in ancient pagan symbolism, often apart from water scenes. "In such cases," notes this reference work, "it would seem to have symbolic significance, possibly to represent deity, power, fecundity, etc."


The same publication further notes that certain Jews adopted use of the fish symbol from pagan religious customs, adding: "It is probable that the considerations mentioned [in this regard] account in part for the appearance of the fish in the art of the oldest Christian catacombs.

How early the Greek word for ‘fish’ (ichthýs) came to be interpreted as a cipher for ‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior’ . . . we do not know; but once this identification was made, the fish became a standard Christian symbol."


The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol.

[wil]

Ok mee, I'll bite.

The bible was never read by Jesus, written by Jesus, authorized by Jesus or sanctified by Jesus.

We know the followers of his followers wrote some of the New Testament books. We know that most of the books were written by Paul or Pauls followers who never met Jesus, except in a vision, something you'd probably discount by most anyone else as nothing.

We know the old testament wasn't the order all the books that Jesus read either.

How is it you so revere a book that was compiled by the same folks that utilize holidays you reject, the same folks that use symbols that you reject, the same folks that you discount so much of everything else they say? (Despite so much of it predates the bible??)

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Ok mee, I'll bite.

The bible was never read by Jesus, written by Jesus, authorized by Jesus or sanctified by Jesus.

We know the followers of his followers wrote some of the New Testament books. We know that most of the books were written by Paul or Pauls followers who never met Jesus, except in a vision, something you'd probably discount by most anyone else as nothing.

We know the old testament wasn't the order all the books that Jesus read either.

How is it you so revere a book that was compiled by the same folks that utilize holidays you reject, the same folks that use symbols that you reject, the same folks that you discount so much of everything else they say? (Despite so much of it predates the bible??)

the bible is inspired of God , but as the bible informs us ,many have strayed from the inspired word of God . and yes , they claim to represent the God of the bible but they have taken on many things SYMBOLS being just one of those things , when a person knows that something is not inline with the inspired word of God the best thing to do is to cast it away from them .

[mee]

Crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god,

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

the bible is inspired of God , but as the bible informs us ,many have strayed from the inspired word of God . and yes , they claim to represent the God of the bible but they have taken on many things SYMBOLS being just one of those things , when a person knows that something is not inline with the inspired word of God the best thing to do is to cast it away from them .

So what do these evil symbols do? I mean Jesus told the fishermen to become fishers of men. Why would it be hard to recognize that folks my utilize the fish or the bacronym as symbol for the thought, what harm is caused?

Over here in the states, I don't know about worldwide but JWs build their buildings exactly alike, you can recognize a Kingdom Hall anywhere, tis a symbol of Jehovah Witnesses, as is the comic book I get in my door, I know they are in town, they built their buiding, I know they were at my door they left a symbol.

What is the issue? Symbols are simply a quick method of identifying something larger.

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

Crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god,

And the Christian Son-G!d. So?

Were you guys big on the Proctor Gamble devil issue too?

[mee]

what Does the Bible Show?

‘But,’ you say, ‘my Bible actually states that Jesus died on a cross.’ And, in reality, many Bible translations do use the word "cross." But what word did the original Bible writers use?

There are two Greek words used for the executional instrument on which Christ died—staurós and xýlon.

The authoritative Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible gives as the
primary meaning for staurós "a stake or post," and for xýlon "timber," "tree" or "wood."

The New Bible Dictionary says: "The Gk. word for ‘cross’ (staurós, verb stauróo) means primarily an upright stake or beam, and secondarily a stake used as an instrument for punishment and execution."


The Latin word used for the instrument on which Christ died was crux which, according to Livy, a famous Roman historian of the first century C.E., means a mere stake.

The Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature says that the crux simplex was a "mere stake ‘of one single piece without transom [crossbar].’"


In confirmation of this, appendix No. 162 of The Companion Bible states concerning staurós that it "denotes an upright pale or stake, to which the criminals were nailed for execution. . . . It never means pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone."
( The appendix concludes: "The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."


With its roots in ancient pagandom, and the evidence that Christ was not impaled on the traditional cross, nor did the early Christians use such a symbol, one is led to this conclusion: The cross is not really Christian.

[wil]

Namaste Mee,

I believe you've said this repeatedly or cut and pasted repeatedly about the stake, pole, vs. cross in a number of threads.

It isn't my question. You started a thread called symbols in worship. A thread that evidently is actually about symbols you don't believe should be used in worship.

What is your issue with symbols? Do you have an issue with this one?

[mee]

[quote=wil;142311] tis a symbol of Jehovah Witnesses, quote]


if we are talking about things that are a mark of recognizing people , then when it comes to JW it is the preaching of the GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM . matthew 24;14 and as you mentioned ,you know that they have been around

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

What is your issue with symbols? Do you have an issue with this one?

not at all as yet i havent been known to neal down and direct my prays to a bit of paper . i make sure that my prayers are directed to the most high PSALM 83;18.


But i am most grateful for the things that the most high JEHOVAH provides , such as the WATCHTOWER MAG . AND IT IS VERRRRRY GOOOOOD

[mee]

The apostle Paul urged Christians to "flee from idolatry." (1 Corinthians 10:14)


The apostle John added: "Guard yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:21)

So one seeking to worship God would want to be very careful to avoid putting worshipful or superstitious trust in idols of "silver and gold, the work of the hands of earthling man."—Psalm 115:4, 8, 11.

[mee]

The death of the fish in the Nile was also a blow to Egypt’s religion, for certain kinds of fish were actually venerated and even mummified. (Ex 7:19-21)

By means of the plagues he visited upon the Egyptians, Jehovah humiliated and executed judgment upon their gods.

[mee]

The frog, regarded as a symbol of fertility and the Egyptian concept of resurrection, was considered sacred to the frog-goddess Heqt.

Hence, the plague of frogs brought disgrace to this goddess. (Ex 8:5-14)

[mee]

Jesus taught that, rather than through visible symbols, "by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves."—John 13: 35.

[wil]

So you reject this symbol and all it stands for that is registered and copywrighted with the appropriate governmental agency that is currently in charge?