symbols in worship - Page 4

Quahom1 · 03-21-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste mee,

You crack me up!

You don't celebrate Easter or Good Friday...no...that is Pagan... but you celebrate the memorial!

poe tae toe, po tah toe, toe mae toe, toe mah toe, 2 funny.

Do you need a ladder to get on and off that high horse??

ps, still haven't provided the biblical origin for that castle symbol you so revere....

I think it has to do with the harlot who whatched for the Hebrew soldiers from the ramparts of Jericho...

mee · 04-04-2008, 12:35 PM

This may surprise you, but it is a fact that religious articles and symbolisms used in ancient pagan Babylon and Egypt are in use today in many "Christian" homes.

It is high time for those who want to be true Christians to clean house, religiously speaking.—Acts 17:29-31.

juantoo3 · 04-04-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

This may surprise you, but it is a fact that religious articles and symbolisms used in ancient pagan Babylon and Egypt are in use today in many "Christian" homes.

It is high time for those who want to be true Christians to clean house, religiously speaking.—Acts 17:29-31.

But mee, even if you happen to hit it correctly some of the time doesn't mean you hit it correctly all of the time.

I struggle with some of the iconography too, but the lesson that lies behind the iconography is often what is important. I am somewhat in agreement, worshipping a cross is almost like worshipping an electric chair or a hangman's noose. But Christians aren't supposed to worship the symbol...even so, the symbol helps recall the lesson attached.

Were the early Christians who had to meet in secret acting sinfully by using the fish symbol among themselves to let each other know when and where to meet? I think no more sinful than a certain denomination using a castle rampart to signify their weekly doctrinal magazine...wouldn't you say?

mee · 04-04-2008, 05:09 PM

[quote=juantoo3;143966]even so, the symbol helps recall the lesson attached.

quote]
not a bible teaching .

Quahom1 · 04-04-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

This may surprise you, but it is a fact that religious articles and symbolisms used in ancient pagan Babylon and Egypt are in use today in many "Christian" homes.

It is high time for those who want to be true Christians to clean house, religiously speaking.—Acts 17:29-31.

You can start by getting rid of your watch tower.

mee · 04-04-2008, 05:24 PM

The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity.

Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol.

For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

There is nothing wrong with these in themselves.
Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

However, at no time should anyone look upon such things with reverence, as if they were a visible sign of Christianity.

rather , what Jesus taught to recognize his followers was this in JOHN 13;35

by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves."—John 13: 35.

While visible symbols have always been a feature of non-Biblical religions, they were absent from Christianity at its beginning.

As in the first century C.E., so today, true Christians must conform to the Scriptural standard: "We are walking by faith, not by sight."—2 Cor. 5:7.

mee · 04-04-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

You can start by getting rid of your watch tower.

why its good bible based reading . and its very good

i cant wait to read my new mags .

just as litral watchtowers enabled a person to observe developments from afar , so that mag shows mee the significance of world events in the light of bible prophecies, and its thrilling times we are living in

Quahom1 · 04-04-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

why its good bible based reading . and its very good

i cant wait to read my new mags .

just as litral watchtowers enabled a person to observe developments from afar , so that mag shows mee the significance of world events in the light of bible prophecies, and its thrilling times we are living in

It's a symbol youv'e come to depend upon first and foremost. It is your Icon. Your idolatry is a magazine written by men with a specific agenda, and not necessarrily that of God's.

You appear to be as guilty as the rest of us pertaining to leaning on symbols...

juantoo3 · 04-06-2008, 01:49 PM

[quote=mee;143976]

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

even so, the symbol helps recall the lesson attached.

quote]
not a bible teaching .

You didn't answer my question.

I'll even beg to differ with this comment too. Letters are symbols all by their little lonesome. Look at how alphabets...in particular the Hebrew alphabet...came into being. EACH different letter *is* a symbol that originally stood for something. Still does, only now that something has become something else.

So, my comment still stands. Symbols help recall the lesson attached, *especially* Bible teaching.

Now, were the early Christians wrong to use the symbol of the fish?

Straight answer, no sliding around the outside to avoid it.

mee · 04-06-2008, 02:24 PM

[quote=Quahom1;143993]a magazine written by men with a specific agenda, .

quote]
very true, it is written by men and it does have a purpose ,and that purpose is to point the way to the bible and what it teaches .

and it is very good reading indeed.
in fact i have just finished reading my latest mags and they led me to the bible to read all about the way that Jesus was taught by his father .

and the way that Jesus learned from his father by listening to him , and observing him .
Yes the father Jehovah is merciful and full of compassion and Jesus was taught by him .

Jesus in his pre-human life in the heaven was listening and observing very well and he had a good heavenly father to teach him

mee · 04-06-2008, 02:37 PM

[quote=juantoo3;144151]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Straight answer, no sliding around the outside to avoid it.

The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. so christians dont need to adopt it . i think it is more a case of being fishers of men .

Joedjr · 04-06-2008, 02:57 PM

Hi Mee,
[quote=mee;144155]

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. so christians dont need to adopt it . i think it is more a case of being fishers of men .

This certainly looks like sliding.

Joedjr · 04-06-2008, 05:43 PM

Hi,
Is this a case of symbols and idols being the same thing? Websters defines them slightly different.

idol: an image of a god, used as an object or instrument of worship.

symbol: something that stands for or represents another thing; esp., and object used to represent something abstract; emblem

The Bible isn't silent on the issue of idols. From the NASB Exodus 20

3:"You shall have no other gods before Me.
4:"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5:"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord you G!d, am a jealous G!d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6:but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Moses teaches the children of Israel to use symbols. Deut 6

6:"These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7:"you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
8:"You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.
9:"you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

So it looks like symbols yes, idols no.

.02
Joe

mee · 04-07-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi,
Is this a case of symbols and idols being the same thing? Websters defines them slightly different.

idol: an image of a god, used as an object or instrument of worship.

symbol: something that stands for or represents another thing; esp., and object used to represent something abstract; emblem

The Bible isn't silent on the issue of idols. From the NASB Exodus 20

3:"You shall have no other gods before Me.
4:"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5:"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord you G!d, am a jealous G!d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6:but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Moses teaches the children of Israel to use symbols. Deut 6

6:"These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7:"you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
8:"You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.
9:"you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

So it looks like symbols yes, idols no.

.02
Joe

Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
And you must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force.
And these words that I am commanding you today must prove to be on your heart; and you must inculcate them in your son and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. deut ; 6; 4-7

juantoo3 · 04-10-2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. so christians dont need to adopt it . i think it is more a case of being fishers of men .

Ah, mee! You are so predictable. Not even a simple yes or no answer. This isn't even close to what I asked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Is this a case of symbols and idols being the same thing? Websters defines them slightly different.

idol: an image of a god, used as an object or instrument of worship.

symbol: something that stands for or represents another thing; esp., and object used to represent something abstract; emblem

So it looks like symbols yes, idols no.

Bull'seye! OOOOPS! That's a symbol too...

That is the mistake our dear mee is making, in my humble opinion, not realizing the difference between a symbol (without which communication is impossible) and an idol. When a symbol is worshipped or adored inordinately and becomes an idol; then it is not correct. I see this on occasion when some people develop a superstitious attachment to religious symbols and icons. But by and large most Christians don't "worship" a cross, or worship a book called the Bible. But both of these are symbols, and the Bible is both symbol and conveyor of symbols, with great meaning to a Christian.