Survey: Non-attendees find faith outside church - USATODAY.com

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Where there is the benefit of community within the church setting, there is also the inevitable negative of defining what constitutes the "others" in order to get the warm, fuzzy of belonging to the "us." In order for there to be an "us" there has to be a "them." I want to be a universal citizen. I can forgo the emotional reassurance of "belonging." I don't need to stroke myself that way.

Chris

This is interesting. I agree, to a point. Except that I don't see in us vs. them terms at all, even though I go to church (sometimes). I don't go to church to gain a sense of belonging.

You can feel a sense of communal energy in all sorts of situations without feeling a sense of belonging. I've been at a few rock concerts that had an incredible amount of group energy. It was just without any clear focus.

Maybe it just depends on what you intend to get out of going to church, rather than church itself? A lot of people probably go to gain a sense of belonging, but clearly some people go for other reasons. I think it is the intent that matters and influences one's experience.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I suppose I fall mainly under numbers 1 and 2. I don't want to waste my time on church. It's not that I'm lazy, although I do sometimes enjoy sleeping in on Sunday morning. I just have other things I'd rather do with my sacred weekend. Things that are more meaningful and fulfilling for me. Like playing golf! Let's see, I can waste half of my precious day off sitting in a pew, or I can do something that's actually fun. Not a tough choice!

If that is church to you Chris, go for it!! Just make sure you're not alone. Bring your friends along for the social connections. Otherwise you wouldn't have a church. Then again, it is just as possible to have a "church" when you're alone and having a time-out. As long as you're healing and regenerating or helping others in their journey of life, you've got a church. Playing golf would be a somewhat unconventional, but creative and imaginative way to have a church. A more down-to-earth kind of church. Is church not working, resting and playing; living and breathing?

When I played with my teddy bears as a kid and dreamt of teddy-bear picnics, that was a kind of church wasn't it?

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Where there is the benefit of community within the church setting, there is also the inevitable negative of defining what constitutes the "others" in order to get the warm, fuzzy of belonging to the "us." In order for there to be an "us" there has to be a "them." I want to be a universal citizen. I can forgo the emotional reassurance of "belonging." I don't need to stroke myself that way.

Chris

Whether it's religion, business, family or nationhood, there's always going to be an "us and them" and with regards to marriage, a "you and me." We all belong, or compare ourselves to something. We could call this Saltmeister's theory of relativity. Or maybe, it's a "him" or "her." You get the "he says" and "she says" kind of thing. Or maybe it's "that multi-billion dollar business over there" and "that country." In life there's always a third person. For someone else it's the next-door neighbour. You might even have that inside the church. Jealousies, comparisons, gossip, girlfriend/boyfriend swapping, flirting, wife-stealing, wife-borrowing, theft, greed, back-stabbing, rivalries . . . You reckon this should be left outside the church? Perhaps we could all ponder that for a while . . .

If people brought this stuff into the church, sure there'd be gossip . . . but gossip can be a good thing. There'd be rudeness and obscenity, but people may finally be able to solve the problem . . . I don't know. I just don't hear many stories of non-church goers bringing their problems into the church to have their problems solved. We expect churches to be peaceful places where nothing bad happens. Maybe that's the problem. Something bad needs to happen. Churches and their communities shouldn't be shy about their problems, particularly marriages and romantic relationships. It'd be a whole new kind of Jerry Springer, though perhaps with a little less decadence (decency please!!!). I'm saying churches shouldn't always be so holy, but that doesn't mean that they should be unholy.

Wow this could be a whole new way of seeing church. Channel your anger in your life at the church.

I do actually have an "us and them" feeling in the church, not of those outside, but of those inside. I don't fit in, but I'm there. That may not always be true, but it's at least true for now.