Sunni vs Shi'a

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by zaim187

As far as I know there are many different branches within shiaism itself. The followers of Imam Jafar As sadiq may Allah be pleased with him are considered as a legitimate school of Islam. There are branches of Shiaism which are not considered Muslim.

Hi
Anybody who claims to be a Muslim, irrespective of his denomination, is a Muslim for all practical purposes and those who deny them this basic right are not rational, as it is only GodAllah who is to decide about the correctness of faith. There are so many verses in Quran which clarify this point. So it is not correct to say a Muslim that he is not Muslim. The Shias are Muslims no doubt, as Sunnis are Muslims. If one sees some wrong practice or wrong belief in them, effort should be made to make them understand and to rectify it by convincing them, that is always welcome.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam, working for Unity of Abrahamic faiths

[zaim187]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi
Anybody who claims to be a Muslim, irrespective of his denomination, is a Muslim for all practical purposes and those who deny them this basic right are not rational, as it is only GodAllah who is to decide about the correctness of faith. There are so many verses in Quran which clarify this point. So it is not correct to say a Muslim that he is not Muslim. The Shias are Muslims no doubt, as Sunnis are Muslims. If one sees some wrong practice or wrong belief in them, effort should be made to make them understand and to rectify it by convincing them, that is always welcome.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam, working for Unity of Abrahamic faiths

If you could send me information on Ahmadis it would be appreciated as all I have heard is critiscm. So it would be great to find an Ahmadis point of view.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by Light

Assalamualaikum,

I feel that this topic is both absurd and inappropriate. Reason being, we are all Muslims. All Muslims are brothers and thus should revered each other is the highest respect possible.

Shia and Sunni are just a name - if we all believe in the same article of faith, then we should ignore the minor differences between us.

These difference are small and does not/should not affect our core believe. Thus, there should not be a problem for a Sunni or a Shia praying side by side nor will there be for a Sunni to pray in Shia masjid or vice versa.

In this current time where Muslims around the world are continuously being maimed and killed, we shouldn't waste our energy trying to confirm who's right or who's wrong.

We should be united and have a common goal in our life. Worship Allah and do as he commanded to the best of our ability and current knowledge. Seek knowledge and divert from satan influence to create a division within ourself.

Be it Sunni hadith or Shia hadith, we should approach it differently now. Not saying you're wrong or you're right, but it is more appropriate to say our opinion and their opinion. If we differed, then we should respect the other person's opinion as nobody knows who right or wrong except Allah.

C'mon Muslims, lets unite, shed the boundaries that keep us apart and exchange knowledge in the name of Allah.

Assallaam Aleykum,

Reading through this thread it appears to me that many have missed the point.

Islam is a Religion to be lived as opposed to a set of writings to bolster our own self importance and belief that we are members of the 'correct' belief.

There is a distinct lack of humility and compassion here, two qualities practiced by Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

I may well, and often do, believe I am correct in my Religious enterpretation but I am only a mortal man and will only ever have limited vision and understanding of the World and our Creator Allah.

I chose to post this in answer to Brother Lights post as this post seems to make the most sense to me.

I have and still do pray in a Shia Mosque as do many others who are not Shia.

I would suggest that those who define themselves and their group by what they are not rather than what they are, should look at themselves and ask themselves some serious questions.

Peace

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by zaim187

If you could send me information on Ahmadis it would be appreciated as all I have heard is critiscm. So it would be great to find an Ahmadis point of view.

Thanks for your interest.You may please access:Al Islam Online - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community,
the Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.No membership is required. If you have a specific question, I may answer you.
Thanks again

[Friend]

Ahmadiyya is Muslems

When and how??

They are not Muslems

[Friend]

Information about this issue

According to the Shiat the line of Mohammed (pbuh) through Ali and Hussein became extinct in 873CE when the last Shia Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, who had no brothers disappeared within days of inheriting the title at the age of four. The Shias refused, however, to accept that he had died, preferring to believe that he was merely "hidden" and would return. When after several centuries this failed to happen, spiritual power passed to the ulema, a council of twelve scholars who elected a supreme Imam. The best known modern example of the Shia supreme Imam is the late Ayyatollah Khomeni, whose portrait hangs in many Shia homes.

Sunnis do not have a formal clergy, just scholars and jurists, who may offer non-binding opinions . Shias believe that their supreme Imam is a fully spiritual guide, inheriting some of Muhammad's inspiration ("light") . Their imams are believed to be inerrant interpreters of law and tradition.


On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis.

I think as a real muslims we must follow Just two resources the Quraan and sunnah (ahadeth Saheha not Those weak),,Imams are Just scholars not prophets .

Thanks to all

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Friend

On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer,

Practically the same except for two lines.

Originally Posted by Friend

they perform wudu and salat differently

I've experienced this. It took me a moment or two to figure out how to follow.

Originally Posted by Friend

including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating.

Doesn't have to be from Karbala. Shias believe in prostrating on the ground/earth, and not on a carpet, hence the use of clay when carpets are commonly found in masjids.
Clay from Karbala is preferred because of the merits associated with it by the Prophet.

Originally Posted by Friend

They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five.

Three times maybe, but still ALL FIVE prayers nevertheless. Sunnis are also permitted to do this, but Sunnis have traditionally put restrictions on the practice such as rain or travel.

Originally Posted by Friend

The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh).

Three reasons directly from Sunni Hadith collections:
- Prophet said I leave with you two things, Book of Allah and members of my household (M4-1286-5920)
- Prophet said his wives are not members of his household (M4-1287-5923)
- Prophet said Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain are members of his household (M4-1293-5955)

Originally Posted by Friend

Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored.

See above.

Originally Posted by Friend

Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis.

Because the Prophet himself never cancelled the practice. It was cancelled later by either Uthman or Umar.

Originally Posted by Friend

I think as a real muslims we must follow Just two resources the Quraan and sunnah (ahadeth Saheha not Those weak),,Imams are Just scholars not prophets .

Thanks to all

Qur'an yes. Sunnah yes. But what is the Sunnah? Sahih Hadiths owe their classification to the "non-binding opinions" of scholars and jurists. Maybe we should come to an agreement on common ground, and turn our backs on uncommon ground instead of turning our backs on eachother.

.

[Friend]

Originally Posted by aburaees

Three reasons directly from Sunni Hadith collections:
- Prophet said I leave with you two things, Book of Allah and members of my household (M4-1286-5920)
- Prophet said his wives are not members of his household (M4-1287-5923)
- Prophet said Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain are members of his household (M4-1293-5955)
.

From Where you get these informations?
I'm surprise ,,,really surprise

In Arabic we now""Ketab Allah wa snnat nabiah "
ÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá: ( ÊóÑóßúÊõ Ýöíßõãú ÃóãúÑóíúäö áóäú ÊóÖöáøõæÇ ãóÇ ÊóãóÓøóßúÊõãú ÈöåöãóÇ ßöÊóÇÈó Çááøóåö æóÓõäøóÉó äóÈöíøöåö ) [ ãæØà ÇáÅãÇã ãÇáß ] .

His household,,what do you mean by it,,Do you mean Your Imam Ja3far or Alkathem or any others Shiat Imams ???I like to read your answer


remeber please this
(({ æ ãÇ ßäÇ ãÚÐÈíä ÍÊì äÈÚË ÑÓæáÇ } æáã íÞá Çááå ÅãÇãÇ Ãæ ãÚÕæãÇ))


Ok I want to ask you did Imam Kamayny of Iran one of of prophet mohammad household,,?what do you think about him

Qur'an yes. Sunnah yes. But what is the Sunnah? Sahih Hadiths owe their classification to the "non-binding opinions" of scholars and jurists. Maybe we should come to an agreement on common ground, and turn our backs on uncommon ground instead of turning our backs on eachother.

I hope to reach to that point

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Friend

From Where you get these informations?
I'm surprise ,,,really surprise

In Arabic we now""Ketab Allah wa snnat nabiah "
ÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá: ( ÊóÑóßúÊõ Ýöíßõãú ÃóãúÑóíúäö áóäú ÊóÖöáøõæÇ ãóÇ ÊóãóÓøóßúÊõãú ÈöåöãóÇ ßöÊóÇÈó Çááøóåö æóÓõäøóÉó äóÈöíøöåö ) [ ãæØà ÇáÅãÇã ãÇáß ] .

His household,,what do you mean by it,,Do you mean Your Imam Ja3far or Alkathem or any others Shiat Imams ???I like to read your answer

remeber please this
(({ æ ãÇ ßäÇ ãÚÐÈíä ÍÊì äÈÚË ÑÓæáÇ } æáã íÞá Çááå ÅãÇãÇ Ãæ ãÚÕæãÇ))

Ok I want to ask you did Imam Kamayny of Iran one of of prophet mohammad household,,?what do you think about him

I hope to reach to that point

Ok Friend, I really don't know what you posted, those characters don't display properly on my browser.

Anyway, the Hadith I posted was from Sahih Muslim, which is considered indisputably authentic by most Sunnis (not western liberals):

Originally Posted by Sahih Muslim

Book 031, Number 5920:

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Now the important thing is, Friend, that most Sunnis don't know anything about Shias except for the false information that has been spread about them... I suggest that your ideas about Khomeini fall into the same category.

If you would care to take the time to find out the real deal about the Shias, you will find that the majority of them don't just invent their practices out of thin air, they can support their practices using Sunni Hadiths.

.

[Friend]

He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Ok

Firstly we should agree that this is a book not Quraan (Kalam Allah),,,and the content here was an explanation of hadith of Mohammad peace upon him,,done by two persons not a prophet explanation.

I think abo lahab was one of his household does that mean he was a good person,,,it is not acceptable to follow any human which does not sent by Allah. we should respect them but not follow ,any resources out of Al Quraan And authentic Hadith must be not followed .

I hope to answer my previous question about new and old Imams of Sheiat?????Do you think they are infallible??Should you follow them as prophets?

I hope Allah guide all to the truth

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Friend

Ok

Firstly we should agree that this is a book not Quraan (Kalam Allah),,,and the content here was an explanation of hadith of Mohammad peace upon him,,done by two persons not a prophet explanation.

I think abo lahab was one of his household does that mean he was a good person,,,it is not acceptable to follow any human which does not sent by Allah. we should respect them but not follow ,any resources out of Al Quraan And authentic Hadith must be not followed .

I hope to answer my previous question about new and old Imams of Sheiat?????Do you think they are infallible??Should you follow them as prophets?

I hope Allah guide all to the truth

Firstly I'm not Shia, just trying to show people where they get their beliefs from (for the sake of balance).

I agree that Muslims shouldn't follow anyone who hasn't been sent by Allah or his Messenger. The dividing issue is who should succeed Allah's Messenger in leading the Muslim community. Sunnis use Hadiths to support the "rightly guided caliphs", And likewise Shias use Hadiths to support the "twelve imams".

As far as Shias are concerned, only the twelve imams prophesised by Allah's Messenger are to succeed him in guiding the community.

The fallibility/infallibility of the imams is a separate issue, insha'Allah I will find the Sahih Hadiths that discuss the merits of the Prophet's household.

Salaam,
Aburaees

.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by aburaees

Firstly I'm not Shia, just trying to show people where they get their beliefs from (for the sake of balance).

I agree that Muslims shouldn't follow anyone who hasn't been sent by Allah or his Messenger. The dividing issue is who should succeed Allah's Messenger in leading the Muslim community. Sunnis use Hadiths to support the "rightly guided caliphs", And likewise Shias use Hadiths to support the "twelve imams".

As far as Shias are concerned, only the twelve imams prophesised by Allah's Messenger are to succeed him in guiding the community.

The fallibility/infallibility of the imams is a separate issue, insha'Allah I will find the Sahih Hadiths that discuss the merits of the Prophet's household.

Salaam,
Aburaees

.

Assalaam Aleykum Brother,

I am not a Shia either but yesterday I prayed the Eid prayer in the Shia Mosque in Bristol. There were many non-Shias there and the differences were marginal. The spirit was one of brotherhood. This is the real practical Islam and lets face it if we look long enough we can find differences between any two people.

Peace

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Abubakar

Assalaam Aleykum Brother,

I am not a Shia either but yesterday I prayed the Eid prayer in the Shia Mosque in Bristol. There were many non-Shias there and the differences were marginal. The spirit was one of brotherhood. This is the real practical Islam and lets face it if we look long enough we can find differences between any two people.

Peace

Wa aleykum assalaam,

Very true brother, even amongst Sunnis there are marginal differences from one group to another. There's a lot of emphasis on the Sunni/Shia divide, it seems that very few people realise that the following decision was made in 1959 at Al-Azhar:

"The Shi'a is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought."

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Biryani/azher.jpg

.

[Friend]

Thanks my brothers for this nice discussion


I hope for all Muslims to be in the same side ,,in the illuminator way,,,without any differences,,,,but in the situated their are many sects,,Actually as our prophet said one of them is right.

Shiite differ in that they go into extremes for their love for some Companions of the Prophet and they go into extremes in hatred of the companions. They make false accusations and evil statements about the Companions.

They say bad and evil things about Aisha, mother of the believers. Too horrific to even state here, they also ridicule and say bad things about Abu Bakr, Umar, Abu Hurayrah and many other companions of the Prophet (peace upon him).

They believe in 12 infallible Imams, and they make dua, (Pray) to these people who they think are perfect.

As every Muslim should know, it is only Allah who is perfect and we must always pray to Allah alone.


Shia do a lot of Shirk (Associating partners with Allah), they visit Graves in Kerbala and all over the world......lamenting and praying to the dead for help.

Shia also have belief in Mutah, (Temporary marriage). They believe that a man can marry a woman for a short period of time and then dump her. That a man can keep doing such things. The Prophet (Peace upon him) clearly forbid this in many hadith.

and also they believe in Tuqyah (lying about their beliefs). So, if you ask them if they do any of this, they will say no. Although, in private and between themselves they talk about it... and when they get angry they will say the most awful things about the companions and about Muslims.

When they pray, they also pray differently. One of their many deviant ways of prayer is to slap their knees before giving the Salam, this is as a curse against the companions of the Prophet.

We can not say that an individual Shia from mainstream shiism is a non-Muslim, but as a group their beliefs can take people outside of Islam.

Bottom line is, if you know about Islam. We are talking Pure Islam, as based on the Quran and Sunnah, with clear understanding of Tawheed, then you will be able to see their mistakes clearly. For example when they say Ya Ali, or Ya Mehdi, etc....... These are clear statements of Shirk (associating partners with Allah),


Read More about Shiites here.



With my best wishes for all

[Friend]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi

I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam , working for Unity of Abrahamic faiths

As for the Ahmadiyya, they are definitely not Muslims. This is because they believe in another Prophet, some Indian guy called Ghulam Ahmad, and they have a lot of beliefs that throw them outside of Islam. Ahmadiyya are not Muslim:

Read About Qadiani / Ahmadiyya and Why they Are Not Muslims

Thanks