Sunni / Shia

[ISFP]

hey all,

a while back, i listened to an NPR reporter interviewing a group of Pakistani children on what they thought about the president of Pakistan. one of the children said "we hate him. he's not even a muslim. he's a shia."

now, i know that catholics and protestants have been saying similar things about one another for years (and within my own family to this day). and that the results of these arguments have often been violent or deadly. so i'm not trying to imply that such sentiments or the conflicts they cause are exclusive to Islam.

but i'd like to understand what the fundemtental differences between the two sects are. big genralization, but why would a sunni decry a shia as a "non-muslim", or at least hold the shia view of islam in a lesser or less credible light than the sunni? most of the examples i've heard so far have been sunni muslims looking down on shia muslims or beliefs, but i'm guessing the sentiment goes both ways.

could someone please clarify the differences (and similarities, of course) between the two sects? hope this didn't offend..... sorry.

and thank you.

[kind]

man wat u r talking about.??Pakistan president is shia? yes there are very little people who think shia to be non muslims....but those ppl call shia non muslims who practically don't know about differences.Two decade ago there were alot issues ..but I m sunni and don't think so and mostly don't think so .

After demises of our beloved muhammad(pbuh) there were two groups of muslims.one were supporting hazrat Abou bakar(RA) to be first caliph while other group supporting Hazrat Ali(RA) to be first caliph..This second group who wanted to see Hazrat Ali(RA) the first caliph is 'shia'..Hazrat Ali(RA) was husband of Hazrat Fatima(RA) who was daughter of of our beloved Muhammad(PBUH)...Hazrat About Bakar(RA) was father of Hazrat Aisha(RA) who was beloved wife of Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH)....so a there was a conflict btw Hazrat Aisha(RA) and Hazrat Ali(RA) that was solved in battle field(not sure here)...so shia is a group that do not have a respect for Hazrat Abou Bakar,hazrat Aisah ,Hazrat Ummar(2nd caliph),Hazrat Usman(3rd caliph)...while we others have high respect for these people as they contributed alot in Islam and were the beloved people of our prophet Muhammad(PBUH).......




fundamentals of Islam
Sunnis and Shias agree on the core fundamentals of Islam - the Five Pillars - and recognize each others as Muslims.They both have same Quran-e-kareem .They both have:-

(1)salat (Prayer)
2) Sawm (Fasting) in ramdan
3) Zakát (Poor-due of 2.5%)
4) Hajj (Pilgrimage to Makkah)
6) Jihad (To Struggle in the Path of Alláh)

In 1959 Sheikh Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the School of Theology at Al Azhar university in Cairo, the most august seat of learning of Sunni Islam and the oldest university in the world, issued a fatwa (ruling) recognizing the legitimacy of the Jafari School of Law to which most Shias belong

Differences:

non shia shahadah (declaration of faith) states:-

Arabic translation:-
"There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh"

while Shia shahadah is:-

"There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph."
If you are already familiar with standard Sunni beliefs, you will immediately notice the addition to the shahadah regarding Imam Ali (ra), cousin of the Prophet (pbuh).

They have some thing added...although we admit Hazrat Ali(RA) is the friend of Allah and the successor of messenger of Allah.but he was not first caliph and they consider Hazrat Ali(RA) first caliph.....we also object that why they have appened declaration of faith.....we call it addition in deen.

Practical Differences

On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis. Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and is now being promoted in Iran by an unlikely alliance of conservative clerics and feminists, the latter group seeking to downplay the obsession with female virginity which is prevalent in both forms of Islam, pointing out that only one of the Prophet's thirteen wives was a virgin when he married them.

but to add But not all shia consider muttah to valid.Those living in Iran practice but i guess at small scale


http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

[ISFP]

Kind-

thank you for your reply. that definately helped clarify some things. is there any particular reason (historical or religious) why Shia Muslims place more of an emphasis on Hazrat Ali?

[I, Brian]

Hi Kind, and thank you for the reply.

The battle that resolved the issue - that was the Battle of the Camel, yes?

[kind]

yes i think..do not know details as i don't like to read details but battle is called camel.

[Satamoot]

The issues are alot more complex than simply a dislike between those who think one should have been Khalif over the other, it reaches the very fundamentals of the religion, where it can be quite clear what conforms to Islaam and what doesn't.

To generalise, the Shia have a belief in the twelve Imamers, who can see the Unseen, make takfir of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthmaan and a whole host of others, and some believe in the 'Qur'aan of Fatimah'.

I can explain some of these things, if you want, but just googling them will through up a a cloud of confusion as to HOW they can think that this is Islaam...

The generalisation i made, by the way, is to say that ALL Shia are of the Khomeini ilk, specifically the Rawafidh.

This has all probably confused many, so ask and I'll try to post a better explanation,

Hope it helps, somewhat,

Satamoot

[I, Brian]

Thanks for the comments, Satamoot - and welcome to CR.

If you would like to offer more detail, you are most certainly welcome.

[*Muslima*]

Salam Alakum,

Jazakum Allah Khair all those who posted

as a Shia myself i would like to tell u ppl wut i believe according to our Shia belief...

shia believe that God is the only one that has the right to choose the Calipha or successor of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh&hp) noone else. we also believe that the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh&hp) DID NOT leave the Muslims without telling them who to follow after him. and it was ImamAli(as) who God choose in the Hadith of our beloved Prophet(pbuh&hp)

hope that cleared everything out

[PluckyAli]

@Muslima,

it doesnot matter what you beleive in.Our believes are useless if we can't support them with evidence.Can't you show us some evidence?.Maybe we are wrong and your right.Who knows?

About shia and sunni belief.I strongly disagree.First you decide whether prophet muhammad was a shia or sunni then i will tell you who i am?.

Both shia and sunni means followers(i asked them separately in theri chat rooms).There is nothing wrong with saying i am sunni of muhammad or shia of muhammad.But there is everything wrong with saying i am shia or sunni muslims.Why?.It generate conflicts,misery,and unreasonable fights and quarrels.

Unfortunately,i am more busy then the word busy.

Ali