Sum up your religious belief

[I, Brian]

Who says Hitler didn't have good intentions? It is only because there is a relative position that says that he didn't that this is said. Certainly about 65 years ago many people thought he had good intentions. Their relative versus ours. As "we won", our relative position is the opinion that triumphs. If Hitler had won, other people would be lauding a different relative position - that of Hitler's good intentions as a shining example to all.

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Who says Hitler didn't have good intentions? It is only because there is a relative position that says that he didn't that this is said. Certainly about 65 years ago many people thought he had good intentions. Their relative versus ours. As "we won", our relative position is the opinion that triumphs. If Hitler had won, other people would be lauding a different relative position - that of Hitler's good intentions as a shining example to all.

two things to say...

vae victis

and...

History is written by the Victors ~ Churchhill

[samabudhi]

Originally Posted by neoxenos

Exactly, so intentions have nothing to do with reality.

Hitler may have thought he had good intentions, and therefore the actions that he was taking were, in his eyes, good actions.
The truth is that he had bad intentions, and therefore the actions that he was taking were, in reality, bad ones.

I'm not saying that someone's intentions (in their eye's, good) will lead to actions which are good in others' eyes.
The perspective must be consistent.

[neoxenos]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

Hitler may have thought he had good intentions, and therefore the actions that he was taking were, in his eyes, good actions.
The truth is that he had bad intentions, and therefore the actions that he was taking were, in reality, bad ones.

I'm not saying that someone's intentions (in their eye's, good) will lead to actions which are good in others' eyes.
The perspective must be consistent.

It is my belief that our perspective must be the truth, and nothing but the truth, which has nothing to do with good or bad intentions.

[Quesocoatl]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

If Hitler had won...

Maybe he did win.

He made his point: Master Race..Chosen People. What's the difference? Jesus was making a similar point by resisting Judaean/Roman dominance and placing all peoples (Gentiles) under the Israeli flag. Not just the nobility.

(Herod wasn't even "full-blooded" Judaen, for all that.)

Check your history, folks. Check your national emblems. Check your indigenous peoples' emblems, PLEASE. Somebody. It's been 2,000 years already.

-- The American dollar is a great place to start.

Anyway, Hitler.
Guerilla Theater of the most insane proportions...and, then, ultimately, setting Zionist culture up on the pedestal of America.

To say Hitler was unaware of the outcome of his actions....is to insult your own intelligence.

Law, Physics....Theater...Jews have been a dominating force in every significant aspect of American culture I can think of, for as long as I've been alive. The star of David is on every dollar bill...every squad car I've ever seen roll by.

And people still don't get it.

Peace.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

The perspective must be consistent.

It's more that the perspective is relative.

[samabudhi]

What I meant was, if you're going to be labeling his actions and intentions good and bad, then you need to do it from a consistent point of view, i.e., either from his point of view, or from our point of view; not, his actions from our point of view and his intentions from his.

[Avinash]

Funny how the tantric Hitler always somehow manages to sneak himself into different threads.

[Quesocoatl]

Originally Posted by Avinash

Funny how the tantric Hitler always somehow manages to sneak himself into different threads.

Ah, well.. you know. He's still alive. Down in Argentina sipping Mai Tais and whittling scale replica cowboy boots out of soap.

In any case, I don't think we are supposed to forget the Holocaust so soon. (It hasn't even been a hundred years.) A lot to be learned from that war...by everyone...on every subject.

[Quesocoatl]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

What I meant was, if you're going to be labeling his actions and intentions good and bad, then you need to do it from a consistent point of view, i.e., either from his point of view, or from our point of view; not, his actions from our point of view and his intentions from his.

That's exactly what Hitler pushed.


I think ..harmony... would be the key in keeping the collective choir awake and cracking wine glasses. Harmony with the consciences that we were all born with. Truth has a harmonic resonance, a math all of its own, regardless of the general concensus.

On a wide scale, offense and defense are nearly indistiguishable from one another. Truth can be made into lies and vice versa ..a lie, ultimately, being.. a "breech of contract" of sorts.

Hitler's actions were, basically, a rebuttal against the infiltration of the molding and belligerent Jewish ethics that were creeping into the rigid sense of democracy Germany has typically been noted for brandishing. On his terms, anyway. To get the real truth you have to look at both sides.

Non-Jewish German kids were getting rocks chucked at them on the way to school.. in their own streets.

And, at the risk of sounding anti-semetic -- God-forbid and which I am not -- the armies of Judah have a history of genocide and ritual slaughter that is unparralelled by both Roman conquest and The Third Reich put together. The only difference being that Hitler's industrial-age jihad is tangible to us: we have pictures. We know old people that have numbers tattooed on their arms.

The thing to remember is that Hitler....was not blonde-haired and blue-eyed. He was said to be of Jewish descent. He wore the moustache of an English silent film comedian who was born 2 days apart from his own birthday. He loved Charlie Chaplin and emulated his style.

A lot of that "historic" footage...was shot in America. Not Germany. And
I'm told the war could have ended years earlier had Churchill given sanction and open ear to Rudolf Hess instead of locking him up.

Propaganda....is dangerous. Right and wrong, very subjective and relative concepts.

"Love God and love your neighbor as yourself."
~Jesus of Nazareth


"Love is the Law. Love under will."
~Aleister Crowley

[tufty68]

Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.

[samabudhi]

Originally Posted by tufty68

Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.

...or mislead us further and faster.

Originally Posted by Chuang Tzu, from chapter 10 - Tolerance

There has been such a thing as letting mankind alone and tolerance; there has never been such a thing as governing mankind. Letting alone Springs from the fear lest men's natural dispositions be perverted and tolerance springs from the fear lest their character be corrupted. But if their natural dispositions be not perverted, nor their character corrupted, what need is there left for government?

Of old, when Yao governed the empire, he made the people live happily; consequently the people struggled to be happy and became restless. When Chieh governed the empire he made the people live miserably; consequently the people regarded life as a burden and were discontented. Restlessness and discontent are subversive of virtue; and without virtue there has never been such a thing as stability.

Originally Posted by Tao Te Ching, verse 57

Use fairness in governing the state.
Use surprise tactics in war.
Be unconcerned and you will have the world.
How do I know it is like this?
Because:
The more regulations there are,
The poorer people become.
The more people own lethal weapons,
The more darkened are the country and clans.
The more clever the people are,
The more extraordinary actions they take.
The more picky the laws are,
The more thieves and gangsters there are.

Therefore the sages say:
"I do not force my way and the people transform themselves.
I enjoy my serenity and the people correct themselves.
I do not interfere and the people enrich themselves.

I have no desires

And the people find their original mind.

[Quesocoatl]

Originally Posted by tufty68

Brian, I must whole-heartedly disagree with this thought. It is our core beliefs that determine and guide our actions. Even lack of belief is a belief in and of itself. It is chaotic, and therefore leads to an unpredictability in life. Strong core beliefs by comaprison guide our actions, and keep us on a straight course.

colonel

Noun:
1. A commissioned military officer in the United States Army or Air Force or Marines who ranks above a lieutenant colonel and below a brigadier general

kernel

Noun:

1. The inner and usually edible part of a seed or grain or nut or fruit stone
2. A single whole grain of a cereal
3. The choicest or most essential or most vital part of some idea or experience

[I, Brian]

Hi tufty68, and welcome to CR.

[louis]

if i had to sum up my religious belifes, there are several things that i could say... so here's how i'd say it:

From Louis....
I have always considered myself to be free of ANY
religious beliefs, but I suppose that, in a way, is also a form of belief....
In brief, I think of religion as an invention of the human
mind and maybe nothing more -
( We are all limited in our ability to observe and learn
about the world around us - and when we reach that
limit, the mind begins to speculate and INVENT things
that MIGHT exist beyond that limit. )
And after observing my own reactions to things I've
read in this forum, I must admit I'm just as stubbornly
attached to that concept as any fundamentalist.
No offense meant - I could also be just as wrong as
any fundamentalist....