Suicide

[mirrorinthefog]

Although taking one's own life seems to have been quite common in various cultures at certain times, and sometimes applauded, there is a huge abhorance to it in other places, and indeed, in certain cultures it is both condemned and encouraged.

Does a person have a right to choose when and how to die? Why, or why not? Can we make this decision for other people?

Why are certain religions firm in their stand against suicide?

[Postmaster]

Come on with the medical drugs we have these days like Morphone... I understand people suffer, I do understand that I will never understand the true nature of there suffering unless I go through it myself and I myself might want a premature death. However we need to preserve life as much as we can, medical science could solve the persons illness in a matter of days the rate we are going at. Also suffering is part of life unfortunately we have to accept it but premature death is unethical on a naturalist point of view too, not only religious. You have the NO vote off me no suiside, happiness lives next door to sadness!

[Sacredstar]

I agree with PM, preservation is part of the first principles of the natural laws of the universe.

From a Christian Spiritualist perspective souls who use their free to take their own lives, go to a place with no name awaiting reincarnation, to do it all over again, so it is good to share this with those that are thinking of such, it always works, because they always consider that it cannot get any worse then now, and they usually decide that they do not wish to go through all that led them to that point once more.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, mirror!

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Although taking one's own life seems to have been quite common in various cultures at certain times, and sometimes applauded, there is a huge abhorance to it in other places, and indeed, in certain cultures it is both condemned and encouraged.

Does a person have a right to choose when and how to die? Why, or why not? Can we make this decision for other people?

Why are certain religions firm in their stand against suicide?

Interesting questions. I think the others pointed out well the reasons for religion's position against taking one's life. After all, life is a precious gift. Some might conclude that maybe they would do things differently in another life, under the assumption of reincarnation or rebirth. For those like me who believe this is the only life we are granted, taking one's life is a tragic thing.

Having said that, what of a person dying of a terminal disease? Is the ending of suffering worth the exchange of a few days or weeks of life? This is a heavy decision, one I pray I am not faced with. If I were to face it though, I would prefer to die with dignity, even if that means by my own hand.

I cannot approach this subject without being reminded of Masada. How the Jewish separatists held out to the last against the Roman army, and then at the last moment took their own lives to spoil the Roman victory. Were these valiant and courageous people heroes, or misled?

It is examples like these that make the philosophical subject of suicide difficult at best to discuss. There is no blanket answer, in the end each individual will answer for their actions. If a person killed themself for some spiteful or shameful reason, then I suspect the arguments against suicide are valid. However, there may be times, like dying or principle (Masada), where it might, just might, be forgivable in the eyes of God. We will know when the time comes. Until then, I expect to teach and treat life as the wonderful gift it is.

Now, the legalization of suicide is a different matter altogether. I do not believe it should be legalized, there should be no reason to encourage people to commit suicide, and there most certainly should be no business assisting or encouraging suicide. Being illegal is a deterrent to those who are not ready. To those who are ready, illegality is no issue. What can a government do, punish a corpse?

[Kaldayen]

Greetings,

Why are certain religions firm in their stand against suicide?

On a strickly practical point of view, I believe suicide isn't allowed in most religions because it would make the religions lose a believer... since most religions want to get as many followers as possible, they can't afford to lose them.

Now, the legalization of suicide is a different matter altogether. I do not believe it should be legalized, there should be no reason to encourage people to commit suicide, and there most certainly should be no business assisting or encouraging suicide. Being illegal is a deterrent to those who are not ready. To those who are ready, illegality is no issue. What can a government do, punish a corpse?

If one wants to terminate his own suffering, as you said, we can't punish a corpse. The legality issue comes up with assisted suicide. What if someone can't suicide.. what if he needs help to achieve it. Or what if someone who could suicide simply wants to die with dignity. I believe the drugs to achieve death should be available for some very specific and incurable cases...

___
Kal

[mirrorinthefog]

Just to be the devil's advocate...
It might be easier for one to sympathize with physical pain or incurable disease, but what about emotional pain, which can be just as devastating? Should individuals suffering from psychological and emotional trauma be allowed to end their pain by taking their own lives? Should they be able, do you think, to seek assistance in killing themselves? Why/why not?

[ISFP]

i think if you can save someone from taking their own lives, you should. if you're lucky enough to be standing in a place where they can reach out to you, and where your relationship can be something that keeps them afloat, go with it.

i have this visceral, unshakable, unexplainable feeling that suicide is wrong. but suffering completely alone and suffering with another are very different. i can understand one who suffers completely alone wanting to take their own lives, and after the fact i'm not going to nag about it.

but so long as you have someone to hold on to you and keep slapping you in the face urging you back into the ring to fight, you don't suffer alone. you suffer with this friend, and cutting yourself off from them is, i feel, wrong. it's a two way street, and as long as you've got someone in there with you for the long haul, you need not to think about just you or just them, but your partnership as a whole.

[I, Brian]

A possibly contributive reason: current belief systems as originating from cultures that saw the dead as requiring specific rites to help protect and preserve them in an afterlife. Without such rites then the soul is unprepared and a potential liability to itself, and suicide would be a clear example of this - theologically speaking.

Just a thought, but not an explanation...

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, mirror!

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Just to be the devil's advocate...
It might be easier for one to sympathize with physical pain or incurable disease, but what about emotional pain, which can be just as devastating? Should individuals suffering from psychological and emotional trauma be allowed to end their pain by taking their own lives? Should they be able, do you think, to seek assistance in killing themselves? Why/why not?

Well, again I say suicide should not be legal or encouraged. Emotional or psychological trauma passes, or more correctly stated a person moves beyond it, in all but the most extreme cases. The young man considering suicide because his lover left him is not thinking correctly because of the psychological stress he is under. But in time he will get over it. On the other hand, someone who is mentally ill and isn't thinking rationally at all, isn't going to concern themselves with legalities or even how their actions affect others.
Any counselor worth the title, would do everything possible to dissuade a person from taking their life, even (especially) when things seem the worst.

The in between in this scenario, is someone who considers suicide to escape the consequences of their actions, like investors who lose their clients' money.

I think the most tragic example of mass suicide in recent times was all of the people who jumped from the Trade Towers on 9/11. Truly heart rending, to say the least.

[amellcheney]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, mirror!

Well, again I say suicide should not be legal or encouraged. Emotional or psychological trauma passes, or more correctly stated a person moves beyond it, in all but the most extreme cases. The young man considering suicide because his lover left him is not thinking correctly because of the psychological stress he is under. But in time he will get over it. On the other hand, someone who is mentally ill and isn't thinking rationally at all, isn't going to concern themselves with legalities or even how their actions affect others.
Any counselor worth the title, would do everything possible to dissuade a person from taking their life, even (especially) when things seem the worst.

The in between in this scenario, is someone who considers suicide to escape the consequences of their actions, like investors who lose their clients' money.

I think the most tragic example of mass suicide in recent times was all of the people who jumped from the Trade Towers on 9/11. Truly heart rending, to say the least.

Being s survivor of a fire and scars from the intense and continuing pain, I can say those poor souls who fell, jumped to there deaths had little choice. The smoke and toxic fumes are deadly themselves added the intense heat if they live through that pain unbelieveable pain will follow. How I made it out of the fire is unknown to me really. I do know I climbed out of a window I had broke with my own bare hands. When I woke up in the hospital with no hair, the bottom of my feet were charred, my legs were filled with blisters, my lungs for a long time were bothered plus all the cuts from broken glass. I was lucky that I have healed for the most part. I don't go barefooted except in the shower. Besides the injuries and what I know now if given the choice of death by fire or death by falling I would take the falling. I do not think what those people did was suicide, they knew they were going to die and that is why they probably jumped

[wil]

Namaste amellcheney,

My heart goes out to all those that suffer, all those in physical or emotional pain. I have seen many struggle through their last years of life. I've seen those that were warehoused in nursing homes. I know folks on morphine pumps that have been in pain for years, pain that drugs can not stop.

I wouldn't ever deny them the right to end it should they choose to do so. Not being in their shoes I don't feel I can prescribe for them in that way, morally, legally or spiritually.

How does one feel about those that choose the DNR, not to recieve medical treatment that prolongs one's life....and where does the line come that that would be considered suicide? I see people taking others to court for religious preferences which forbid all medical intervention.

My son asked me about what the penalty is for attempted suicide...and if you tried it often enough would they give you the death penalty for it? On one hand it seems ludicrous on the other it also puts into question capitol punishment as well. If we don't have the right to take our own life, what gives us the right to take another's?

[Tao_Equus]

My son asked me about what the penalty is for attempted suicide...and if you tried it often enough would they give you the death penalty for it?

From the impression I get over here in the UK if you were in Texas that might happen. They seem happy enough to execute the mentaly defficient, why not the mentaly exhausted.