stand up

[arif]

As a Muslim I would like to why we are not standing up against terrorism. I don’t know if anybody watched the Dispatches documentary recently, Undercover Mosque, I am appalled as a Muslim we let these so called preachers (basically they want to take over the world and convert everybody to Islam, they don’t believe in democracy) to get away with using Islam for their own agendas but we get upset over programs like big brother.
We need to get rid of these evil men now.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by arif

As a Muslim I would like to why we are not standing up against terrorism. I don’t know if anybody watched the Dispatches documentary recently, Undercover Mosque, I am appalled as a Muslim we let these so called preachers (basically they want to take over the world and convert everybody to Islam, they don’t believe in democracy) to get away with using Islam for their own agendas but we get upset over programs like big brother.
We need to get rid of these evil men now.

Asalaamaleykum Arif

As a Muslim can you tell me how many terorists or supporters of terrorists you have encountered?

I have yet to encounter one and I have been to Mosque hundreds and hundreds of times. I have yet to hear in person a 'hate preacher' or any Iman would agrees with terrorism or suicide bombing.

Do you have a plan to get rid of these people and have you identified anyone who you think we should 'get rid of' (whatever that means).

Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments, I wonder exactly what you mean.

Peace

[wil]

This discussion is desperately needed. Muslims are quickly all being lumped in the same group as the terrorists.

If I read Arif right, he is indicating it is time for Muslims to 'stand up' and indicate that suicide bombing is not supported by Muslims at large.

It appears without standing up and separating oneself from the group that supports annihilation of the western world then eventually all Muslims will be assumed to be in support...

[I, Brian]

This all makes me think on the "troubles" in Northern Ireland, where a minority of Catholics and Protestants were actively engaged in terrorism against each other and the British.

Because the Brits had a history of Christian influence, it was perfectly plain that this wasn't normal or accepted Christian practice, but simply the domain of a minority of radicals with political agendas first, not religious.

Therefore to expect Islam to distance itself from terrorism I think is to presume Islam guilty of it in the first place, or else simply suggest our ignorance.

I know there have been quite a few public proclamations in Britain by Muslim groups distancing actions attributed to Al Qaeda and similar from Islam. Aside from that, I don't think we can really ask for much else.

What I would actually like to see is more reportage in the British press of condemnation by Arab governments over the Sunni-Shi'a conflict in Iraq. I'm fairly certain the condemnations occur, but we see little coverage of these. If we did, perhaps that would certainly help demonstrate Muslim outrage against outrages between Muslims.

And if so, it's an issue to take up with the press, not Islam.

2c.

[Caimanson]

Scary stuff.

Dispatches - Undercover Mosque - Google Video

[Zaakir]

i think the best way that islam and muslims can show people that it is the opposite of terrorism, show them islams sincerity, peacefullness, uniqueness and respect that the religion teaches us is in our ACTIONS. how can we expect people to do programmes or even think about the real islam if we dont show them? look at the people taht the sahaba and the prophet S.A.W reached out to and touched from their actions, this is what we as muslims need to do, not hold protests that people will just critisize. taht video though was hilarious, where shaikh khalid yasin said we as muslims do brain washing...was when he was actually talking in a contradictory way,saying taht people think that,and teh video showed this, as with the hijab bit, the same...we as muslims know the truth and as i said, we have to show the people islam, as this video is what peopel think, but the media will say things to get viewers!

[pattimax]

God does not watch T.V.

[Abubakar]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Scary stuff.

Dispatches - Undercover Mosque - Google Video

Hi Caimanson

I didn't see the program myself and unfortunately the sound has gone wonky on my media player which makes the watching of almost anything painful. What did you make of the program, did you think it a sensationalist tabloid bit of journalism or a well rounded veiw of the activities of most Mosques in the UK (or somewhere inbetween)?

I guess a program about Muslims coming to prayer being exahulted to do good deeds, be better neighbours, be considerate of your spouse and the normal run of the mill stuff just doesn't make interesting television.

I am aware that there are those out there that are trying to good bad things in the name of our Religion and also there are those who are trying to tar us all with the same brush. As I have stated I have never heard a hate preacher, never been told by a fellow worshipper that he supports terrorism.

I remember one incident where I was working previously and apparantly one Muslim lad had expressed some sympathy for The Taliban. When I heard of this I deliberately went to him to confront him about his ideas, as I walked through the door he said "not you as well". I asked him what he meant. He told me that I was the slowest Muslim here as all the others had come to bite his head off about the Taliban, he pointed out that he should be insulted as we should know him better, he had only told someone that in the West we were only hearing one side of the story and he didn't support the Taliban but thought we perhaps all had a duty to at least examine the situation fairly. It is a source of ammusement between us althoug he did stop calling me the Taliban hunter!

In fact I did read up on them and found that the subject is far more complex than at first glance.

[Caimanson]

Originally Posted by Abubakar

I didn't see the program myself and unfortunately the sound has gone wonky on my media player which makes the watching of almost anything painful. What did you make of the program, did you think it a sensationalist tabloid bit of journalism or a well rounded veiw of the activities of most Mosques in the UK (or somewhere inbetween)?

Well, it is not a documentary, it is really a journalistic expose, so for that reason they only focus on the heart of the matter.
They filmed preaching undercover inside the mosques, but more disturbingly a good chunk of the material came from DVDs that you can purchase in a normal Muslim bookshop or from the mosque's websites.
It is hard to refute the evidence since the statements are very literal.

It's all about how Saudi money is training and funding preachers into extremist Wahhabist doctrines around the world, and how it has infiltrated important mosques and Islamic umbrella organisations that in the eyes of the government and the public are supposed to be moderate.

If there was any balance, they did interview moderate Muslims that supported the views of the program.

So in the end you are left wondering about the integrity of the mainstream Muslim establishment that is supposed to be moderate. It is hard to see the whole picture from a program like this, but how come they allow such blatant extremist preaching to happen in their mosques?

[zaim187]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

So in the end you are left wondering about the integrity of the mainstream Muslim establishment that is supposed to be moderate. It is hard to see the whole picture from a program like this, but how come they allow such blatant extremist preaching to happen in their mosques?

Did the program show whole speeches and sermons or just isolated statements.

[Caimanson]

Oviously not the whole sermon, otherwise it would have been too long.
Watch the program and tell us what you think.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by wil

This discussion is desperately needed. Muslims are quickly all being lumped in the same group as the terrorists.

Originally Posted by wil

If I read Arif right, he is indicating it is time for Muslims to 'stand up' and indicate that suicide bombing is not supported by Muslims at large.
It appears without standing up and separating oneself from the group that supports annihilation of the western world then eventually all Muslims will be assumed to be in support...

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 ThePromisedMessiahImamMahdiMoshiach of the present era stood up for that very purpose and at a very appropriate time, after being appointed by GodAllahYHWH on this high office. He with truthful reasons from Quran and Hadith and other revealed religions of the world proved that Jehad for the purpose of converting non-Muslims to the fold of Islam was not legitimate. Muhammad SAW himself prophesised that when PromisdMessiah would come he would forthwith abolish such wrong concepts of Jehad/killings/war, as there are unIslamic and illegitimate having no basis. These are counterproductive and hinder the spread of Islam ( submission to truth ) in the world.
So this is why Ahamdis are considered minority; though truth should never be seen in terms of minority, majority etc, truth is truth, it is in absolute terms. Love for all hatred for none.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam

[Zaakir]

sounds asif your insinuating islam isnt all about peace, and that yours just is.....we shouldnt try and craete divides like this, but remove them

[Amica]

We Muslims have a lot of work on our hands. Every hard work begins in ones own backyard, and I think that type of work for us Muslims is going to be a great test for us.
Regardless what non-Muslims believe about us, they will never accept us for who we are. But we Muslims (many of us around the globe) are not doing ourselves justice by simply watching what is happening in the name of our religion.

Islam is perhaps attacked for various reasons, but certain people who proclaim themselves to be Muslims support the attack on Islam in a seriously wrong way: suicide bombings and terrorist acts. Even the Sharia Law is misused in some countries, like the Saudi Arabia where women are much mistreated. Why do we put up with that? How can we help non-Muslims understand us better if we allow certain people to do many evil things? How is stoning ok by Islam when no where in the Holy Qur'an is stoning mentioned as a prescribed punishment? Why some of us use Hadith as the authority over the Holy Qur'an? Is it because they find the sayings more convenient and because in the sayings they feel their actions are 'justified' even when the Qur'an may contradict it?

How is suicide bombing ok? Not only morally is it wrong, but in what way can it possibly help Muslims? Why?

Yes, we Muslims do not believe these are islamic behaviors and alienate ourselves from such. We may think that by doing so we have denounced it and there is no need to tell so to the world. But the world is watching our every move and us not letting others know how we feel about non-islamic ways that some of the Muslims are resorting to, is making others attack us stronger.

Allah SWT, it is said, might not help people who won't help themselves. We must act against these evils in our midst and at the same time stand by our faith Islam.

[Amica]

Arif,

I am originally from Bosnia. I am a Sunni Muslim, just like majority of Bosnian Muslims are. All my life I have known Islam as a peaceful faith. Never in my life have I heard any imam that my family came in contact with to call people to hate others. Their message was always to love our faith and respect others'. One of the imams in my home town actually had a Catholic priest as his best friend.

What happaned after the Bosnian bloodshed in 1990s is that Wahabis somehow reached through to Bosnia. Even though they have not received large following at all, there is tiny groups. Recently, on the bosnian news (I watch over the satellite) there has been incidents of the Wahabis attacking some Bosnians verbally and physically for 'not practicing' Islam 'the right way.' The incidents took place in mosques and surrounding the mosques. This is very strange to us Bosnian Muslims to see even some Bosnians be so radicalized and something majority of us Bosnian Muslims very much detest.

What does it matter how one is positioned in prayer or what kind of hand movements he/she may make? Aren't we praying to One God only? Will He ask us about how I held my hands while praying or will He be asking me about what I was thinking in my prayers, what I did before my prayers, what did I do after my prayers, was I sincere enough, will I be better Muslim after each of my prayer to grow in my faith?

No. Somehow Whahabism makes Islam seem like a jailtime cult where everything is strict, 90% of human behaviors are forbidden, that God 'is a very angry ' Being that 'smites' everything for 'everything.' It is too focused on God's punishments and less emphasizes God's Mercy. God Himself, SWT, told us that His Mercy is faster than His punishment. Although the punishments are no less easier, but the Grace is so huge! Whahabism preaches fear and no hope. The way they represent Islam makes me want to cry and I can only imagine the fear a Whahabi Muslim must feel on a daily basis by engaging in simple actions that he/she may perceive as threatening to salvation.

There needs to be a universal Muslim conference to discuss Whahabism and what it does to Muslim Ummah. Not only is it angry with the whole world, not only is it intolerant of anyone who differs from Whahabi ways (including Muslims) but it is destroying Muslim Ummah.