Spiritual Teachers

[In the Now]

Hi all

There are a number of different teachers 'out there'. Those who claim to be 'Enlightened' often also say something like 'there is no-one here to be, or not be Enlightened' and 'you are already Enlightened, so there is no point trying to do anything!'.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any 'new' teachers who seem to know their stuff, but are still accessible enough. By the time many of us hear of them usually, they are famous, shunning the 'lesser' people, amassing huge wealth and have a number of sites about them, detailing their short-fallings and listing their abuse of their students.

A new Teacher in the London area is Nick Roach [edit by I, Brian - link remove]

He seems pretty 'down to earth'. Does anyone know anything about him yet?

[didymus]

when the student is ready the teacher will appear

[Sacredstar]

All that you need is within,

seek and you shall find,

knock and the door will open.

Love beyond measure

Kim xx

[ISFP]

i've talked to Nick on an on-line forum dedicated to discussing enlightenment. i'm not sure what to think of him... he certainly seems to feel that he's enlightened, and qualified to validate or invalidate others' spiritual experiences. my general inclination is to not entrust my spiritual growth with any one person or their "formula".

there are many new teachers floating around, yes. but i feel that there is, in the end, no greater teacher than one's personal experience.

[I, Brian]

Titles are very very easy to claim.

I've dealt with more than one person who thought they were enlightened - heck, we've had a string of "modern prohets" at CR already, and I've moderated people who claimed to be Christ returned, or even a God bouncing between dimensions. What worth are such claims? Without action, words are nothing.

I've not encountered Nick Roach, so I can't make any personal comment on the guy or his actions (and by the way I removed the original link because it looked like a potential case of forum spamming - apologies if not the case).

But I will say this - anybody who sets themselves over others as a spiritual guide or teacher displays great potential for arrogance, and requires treating as such.

Oh, within many theologies there is a level of detail and complexity that additional teaching can be very helpful for. But this is not the teaching of spiritual awareness, merely theological details which pertain to be spiritual truths. Yet merely learning to emulate examples from such texts is not the same as self-realisation and Freewill application of the same ideas (lol! how many contentious subject areas can I throw into a single paragraph?!).

You simply cannot teach what the spiritual is, because the spiritual is what we find within ourselves through our own senses. The discovery can be made with prompting, but it remains a process of learning to open our own eyes, rather than someone trying to prise the lids off for us.

So "spiritual teacher" is a potential contradiction - after all, a Wiccan can teach Wicca, a Christian can teach Christianity - but who can teach spiritual self-realisation? Nobody but the self.

All Hail the Words of the Prophet, Monty Python:

BRIAN: Look. You've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!

FOLLOWERS: Yes, we're all individuals!

BRIAN: You're all different!

FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different!

DENNIS: I'm not.

ARTHUR: Shhhh.

FOLLOWERS: Shh. Shhhh. Shhh.

BRIAN: You've all got to work it out for yourselves!

FOLLOWERS: Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!

BRIAN: Exactly!

2c.

[Postmaster]

I've dealt with more than one person who thought they were enlightened - heck, we've had a string of "modern prohets" at CR already, and I've moderated people who claimed to be Christ returned, or even a God bouncing between dimensions. What worth are such claims? Without action, words are nothing.

You have to be joking!!! What has the world come to?

You know I say, look for the signs! There are signs during, before and after death of any spiritual leader. That's one way God has helped us on that one. Truly special people are born every few thousand years... I don't think our societies will produce anymore, they were to sent to help us reach where we are today. I think humans to do it a lone now. I'd love to slap one of these so called spiritual leaders, so they can see just how human they are

[LaurenR427]

Hi. I was wondering if you could tell me exactly what this Nick Roach teaches. Is he at all similar to anyone else? I'm going to look into it tonight. Thanks

Originally Posted by In the Now

Hi all

There are a number of different teachers 'out there'. Those who claim to be 'Enlightened' often also say something like 'there is no-one here to be, or not be Enlightened' and 'you are already Enlightened, so there is no point trying to do anything!'.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any 'new' teachers who seem to know their stuff, but are still accessible enough. By the time many of us hear of them usually, they are famous, shunning the 'lesser' people, amassing huge wealth and have a number of sites about them, detailing their short-fallings and listing their abuse of their students.

A new Teacher in the London area is Nick Roach [edit by I, Brian - link remove]

He seems pretty 'down to earth'. Does anyone know anything about him yet?

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

In this world there are many people who are actually an emination of a Buddha. In fact, the only person who I know for sure is not a buddha is me, the rest of you might all be eminations of the enlightened ones trying to help me achieve liberation.

Some times I come across people who I am certain are Buddha eminations, such as the monk who introduced me to buddhism and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, but I have to consider that they may merely be human. Other times I come across people who claim to be enlightened but I am fairly certain are not, like a wierd Buddhist Evangelist guy I say on TV who called himself Buddha Jerico or something, then I have to consider that he may really be a Buddha with some purpose guiding me closer to enlightenment.

In the big picture, you can never be totally certain who really is enlightened, so treat everyone with the respect with which you would treat a true spiritual guide and do not discount anyones point of view out of hand. If you find a spiritual guide who's teachings feel right to you, then follow him.

[Ciel]

Many years ago I was drawn toward a spiritual enlightened master, it was not an intellectual pursuit, it was floating in an ocean of the most incredible love. My family and I sold every thing and moved into one of the many communes of his empire. The empire grew until it imploded upon itself, the master died. But the journey of enlightened life continued to fullfilment. It was part of the destiny of this life to move through. To many he was a charlatan, he was provocative, he was extreme, yet few have dared to shake the foundations of the establishment, to awaken the soul and spirit to a new way of being as he, and I am forever grateful and blessed in the timeless time spent in his presence for life was enabled to flow with the essential truth beyond the existence of every day reality.

[In the Now]

Hi all

Thanks for your advice. All the teachers seem to say 'it is within you' so perhaps we don't need any of them . Don't know a great deal about him still. There is a guy on another forum (if the link is permitted) http://www.jimmyvincent.com/cgi-loca...&f=25&t=000253 who seems to have been to his talks. But saying that, perhaps we usually get to hear about these chappies once they are famous, earning a fotune, or abusing their 'followers' and until then there may not be much to hear. We'll see.

[I, Brian]

Therefore Enlightenment also includes the knowledge that the more Enlightened I am, the less there is anyone here to actually know it

Statements like that are so easily interpreted as arrogance, which gets my hackles up no end.

I see a spiritual truth that we are all equal - the more "spiritual" a person is, perhaps then the more they realise that. If someone sees themselves as above others, then all they have is a self-centered opinion, not a spiritual overview.

A skim read of the page doesn't suggest anything particularly remarkable in terms of outlook, which is good - but it has to be said I've seen this sort of philosphy from New Agers who claimed to be nothing more remarkable than housewives or mothers. Who should be treated different for their words - the humble or the self-appointed teachers?

Is Enlightenment* in the sense applied something that can be found? No. It is an ever-progressing journey. There are plenty of people who will stop and marvel at the experience, but it is not a whole experience, only partial.

It is like walking from London to Calcutta, and halfway through Paris announcing that you are in Calcutta. Where is the worth of such a claim? Yet when the person reaches Calcutta they will find that the object of the journey is not the end but the process of moving towards an end.



*Disclaimer - apologies to Vaj for what is likely shameless abuse of the principle as understood within Buddhism.

[In the Now]

Hi Brian

You wrote

"I see a spiritual truth that we are all equal - the more "spiritual" a person is, perhaps then the more they realise that. If someone sees themselves as above others, then all they have is a self-centered opinion, not a spiritual overview."...

..."Is Enlightenment* in the sense applied something that can be found? No. It is an ever-progressing journey. There are plenty of people who will stop and marvel at the experience, but it is not a whole experience, only partial."

I found the entire paragraph where your quote came from, if I'm permitted to post it....

"It was only once it happened here that I saw it is not better to be Enlightened than not. Just a little further up the same path. The space you are feeling every moment within you that you ignore and take for granted, is it. The more you feel it and become aware of it, the more you become it. You come to know this space is creating everything, even your own sense of being only exists due to the separation from the stillness or space within. Therefore Enlightenment also includes the knowledge that the more Enlightened I am, the less there is anyone here to actually know it, until the dream ends."

Forgive me, but I have to ask, is that not inline with your statements....

Anyway, it's all too much for me to understand. I'll stick some syrup on my bowl of ice-cream and see if that gives any 'sweet' feelings of bliss or one-ness.

[Job]

For one to become enlightened one has to suffer, enlightenment is to know the suffering of others and to be able to know that it is due to the unnatural act of man. To see these acts for what they are and be able to lead others from these acts. Not in a prideful manner but with humanility and respect. To treat all strangers with honor. These are the ways of a teacher. Me Job

[farhan]

I think enlightment is inside us , & we discover it through our own senses . But its always better to have a teacher ( like in every other thing ) to guide U through your spiritual problems . If he has walked through the path U R walking on , he must know which turns R most difficult , & can guide U through them .

Try these links . This is the Sufi order I have been learning from .

http://www.azeemia.org.pk/internatio...raqba_hall.htm

http://www.azeemia.co.uk/Muraqaba%20Halls.htm

[ambassador]

Give this link a try

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/free_library.asp