Spirits

[PersonaNonGrata]

sawadee all,

the only sprit seeing/interacting people i believe were the native-indians in america, though i have no proof in that, i can sense that being united with the nature should have opened the way to communicate with some unidentified earthly objects (UEO).

this totally means that i do believe in UEOs. questions going on in my mind..

who decides these spirits will get in touch with? are they here with us always/ do they have some kind of special places in these grounds? created by god itself? has any religion other then islam referred to these UEOs? (i have stated somewhere in this forum that quran says there are spritis that can be contacted)
dogs barking? here whenever the morning prayer calls most dogs howl... sounds scary to tell the truth..
i dont know really, on my physicall and spritual journey i have done in s.e.asia for 2 years i have called them.. in the small mountain villages, in the jungles of cambodia, in the island of koh sahmed, in the lonely pansion near the cambodian border, what i got was pure loneliness and the voice of my own brain. i wanted a voice, a small sign that could help me clear out everything i have on mind.
i wasnt the right guy? magical words had to be said? 2 years of inside journey is not enuff, what if i saw/hear them? those questions are remained there as ive known that sprits even they do exist i didnt see them, i didnt sense them..

respectfully yours. erai

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by alexa

Hi Quahom1,


I agree.


Sorry, but I didn't start this thread.

Alexa

Alexa, forgive me if I caused a misinterpentation. I was not implying you did anything. I thought I was answering a question you posed.

Again I apologize for any mis-understanding I may have caused.

v/r

Q

[Erynn]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Is there any chance, Erynn, of putting this relationship with spirits into an act which can be marketed like in a circus? Imagine the income such a display will earn for the person with such a gifted contact with spirits.

Well, some people do hang up shingles as mediums or shamans, or whatever, and make money at it. There's some guy on US television who claims to speak with the dead in front of an audience for his show every week -- that seems pretty much like a circus to me. While I have occasionally offered my services for money, it's usually not much money, as I don't like that form of exchange very much. Contact is rarely absolute or totally controllable. The spirits have their own agendas, and from what I can tell, most of them would not lie to be treated as some circus act. Mostly what I've charged money for have been things like tarot readings, for clearing out and blessing a space, or for writing rituals for others who can't do it for themselves.


About Castaneda:

No, I confess I have not read any of his works except browse about them in bookstores, and reached the conclusion that I have better use of my time and funds. What did he do with his sizable earnings? Open a center for the study and cultivation of contacts with spirits?

I've read several of his books, but have also read a number of other things about him and generally consider him a fraud. I am pretty sure he opened a school for his own students, but he was extremely recluse and did not allow much information about himself to be available. He was excellent at making money, but I have no idea what he did with it.

The better study is not about spirits but about people who are into spirits, like Castaneda, who made a fortune from writing about them and his encounters with them. The conclusion you will reach I am sure, is that they make money from spirits.

I think people who are primarily into it for money are more likely to be frauds than people genuinely in contact with spirits. Information from spirits is not always reliable -- spirits are not infallible. They can be wiser than us in some regards, but most spirits have limited experience with things like money, gambling, etc.

I think animals like dogs know about the spirit that leaves the human body when a human person is dying, or maybe also other animals or living entities; which does not mean that the spirit continues to exist apart from the living human.

In the neighborhood when the dogs are howling, they seem to be saying that someone is in the throes of death -- my own observations. What do you guys say?

Why do they howl upon sensing the subtle odor of death or dying? Perhaps thousands of years before it meant time to eat.

I do think that many animals, including cats and dogs, are more sensitive to the presence of spirits than your average human being. That being said, sometimes dogs just howl to hear themselves do it, or because their ears hurt, or because they're "singing along" with somebody's instrument or voice.

Spirits are all around us, but I don't believe that everything that happens is related to them.

[Susma Rio Sep]

I am afraid of ghosts or spirits, more correctly: the kinds that can frighten me, namely, those that cause physical harm to me, or give me an unaesthetic encounter, like those portrayals from artists and Hollywood of demons. Demons are spirits, yes?

But on analysis of my own feelings, that kind of fear is what I know to be a conditioned fear, not a logical fear. Logical fear is like that fear of being hit by a falling bullet fired by an idiot shooting into the sky in a crowd where I happend to be also present. And there are idiots who think that falling bullets are harmless.

Brian appears to not acknowledge the existence of spirits. What about me? There does not seem to be evidence enough to warrant a proof that I might consider to be beyond all reasonable doubts to their existence. But as I said earlier, I am afraid of them just the same.

My wife and I once considered buying a haunted house, imagining that it would go for a much cheaper price. We heard of haunted houses and not occupied; but owners are demanding the same market prices. Know of any houses with the habitual presence of spirits, on sale for prices lower than the market's?

For the present, spirits are all in the mind. If your mind has never been informed by others about them, or you have never drawn any rash conclusion about their existence, then for all practical purposes they don't exist. And we can all spend our time more profitably in speculating about what will 'equanimitize' the al-Qaeda folks.

Pachomius2000

PS About buying or living in a haunted house, make sure that no humans are transgressing the place in stealth.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I don't normally take much notice of the concept of "spirits". The term and other people's description always sounded like metaphor - of information generally cleansed to be comprehensible to the human mind, and mixing with the emotional state of the person.

About a week ago my family left for short holiday with relative while I got on with work at home - so the house is emptier, and noises are more marked.

However, from the hallway behind me there is a constant sense of "being watched".

It's not malignant - there's little sense of anything though, excepting of...being wathed, and from a specific location, being the hallway to the room where I work (which also happens to be directly behind myself).

On the emotional site I guess I feel a little more exposed and alert - so there is definitely that factor.

However, I'm used to benig empathically aware - of walking down a street and knowing when and from where people are looking at me. When I feel it on the street I look around and usually straight into the eyes of someone, who'll often quickly look away.

But the odd thing is - it feels like the same sense being tripped. It's a total sense of presence, but I can't read the emotions, other than there's nothing threatening...almost curious...as if watching for the sake of watching.

Heh, beginning to sound like late-night paranoia.

It is a fascinating feeling through - and with that, a general invitation on the cnocept of "spirits" - do they exist?

Regardless of what I've written above, I'll still say "no" in terms of the familiar "disembodied spirit" notion.

[Erynn]

Well, it's true that there are spirit entities out there than can Eat Your Head. There are ways to avoid that, though, which usually involve good psychic hygiene like staying grounded and centered, and doing energy work like shielding.

I'm not sure why a person frightened of spirits might want to buy a haunted house, though.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Erynn

Well, it's true that there are spirit entities out there than can Eat Your Head. There are ways to avoid that, though, which usually involve good psychic hygiene like staying grounded and centered, and doing energy work like shielding.

I'm not sure why a person frightened of spirits might want to buy a haunted house, though.

Actually we thought that we could get a house cheaper if it were haunted by spirits, because then the owner would not be asking a fair market price owing to his desire to get rid of it.

We learned however that when it comes to money, haunting by spirits does not devalue a house.

The conclusion is that spirits don't count in the down to earth matter of evaluating the real material worth of a house.

Is this respect spirits are like the dirt that might be soiling money bills but which we still keep and guard carefully, I mean the money; the spirits don't count for nothing -- I mean the dirt.

The point I want to bring out is that I don't really fear spirits or take them seriously; so that if a haunted house were to be sold cheaper for being haunted, the haunting would not deter me in any way from buying it because it would be a good bargain, specially when it is bigger and better than the house we are actually occupying.

Tell me if you still miss the message I am trying to convey.

Am I afraid of spirits? only if they are like falling bullets idiots fired into the sky; otherwise the fear is more of an accustomed reaction that can be easily dismissed like an impure thought when a person is striving to be chaste in his mind and heart.

Pachomius2000

[PersonaNonGrata]

Jinns/gins= shape of first creature Iblis. Like Jins as Human on
people. And Iblis like Adam as name person. Human like creatures living in the same places as we do.

What mohammed (or allah himself dunno dont care, as allah refers to only some part of humans i cant see it as the ONE, so even he made mohammed wrote quran that still doesnt make sense though thats not the point in here) told in quran is that there's bad gins and good gins. which might be roughly translated as sprits.

If one human being will face with a good gin he will be informed with good news and goodwill (of the dead ancestors probably) but if he is to be faced with bad gins pity on him as he maybe cursed, his family or loved ones or himself is/will be in such horrible events.

So to sum up (quick summing huh?) if you are a muslim some gins can be really scary, in my childhood i was warned by my grandies that if i piss on ashes (literally) bad gines will be following me. So i have to act cautiously where i piss )) There's also another issue that happened but i guess i dont have the time to tell that right now.

I still wonder what does the religous beliefs around you says about sprits?




regards
erai

reading "NasIL YapmaLI - Nikolai Gavriloviç Çernişevski", kinda interesting how russian authors prepared the russians for communism...

[Lady_Selune]

Greetings all and well met,

Just came across this thread and had to post. As I mentioned in another thread I am shaman. Like Erynn, part of my belief system encompasses spirits. For me they are commonly referred to as a totem of some sort and will often take the shape of an animal or plant. They are not however limited to those things.

Interesting experience you have had Brian, I would agree with Erynn, give the “thing” watching the ability to covey its message to you. Your ‘offering” does not have to be food it can and should be whatever you pick up that “feels” right.

Recently I was visiting with my Uncle in the Northeast. We had decided that we would play tourists and go and see all the things there were to see in Philadelphia, New York, and Washington D.C. For me it was the first time I had actually played tourist and for the most part was having a wonderful time, right up until we visited Ellis Island. (For those of you not familiar with it, Ellis island is an island very close to the island that the Statue of Liberty sits on and was used from 1836 – 1956 as the primary location for people coming to this country.) As we took the ferry from Liberty Island over to Ellis I began to develop a small headache. I actually thought nothing of it as I had shielded myself fairly well at the beginning of our site seeing. After all we were going to many places that had some rather dark history and there are certain things I would rather not have to deal with.

At any rate I paid little attention to that fact, and of course, I was soon to regret not doing so. We got to the island and my Uncle and I departed the ferry looking forward to spending the rest of our day exploring Ellis Island. (It should be noted that my Uncle is by marriage not blood and does not know of the path that chose me) We were of course not alone on the island and I didn’t think much of the people I had began to see, if they were dressed a bit differently I just marked that down to them being from different areas of the country or even from other countries. I didn’t think too much about that either. The one thing that I did pay attention to was the fact that my headache was really starting to become overwhelming and that I was starting to feel physically sick. Since I am not one to make over feeling ill, I told my Uncle that I need to rest for a few minutes and encouraged him to go ahead with his exploration that I would catch up with him in a minute or two.

After taking the time to get myself all but under control, I went in search of my Uncle. The place was packed with site seers so it was not easy task to locate one person. I was making my way down a crowded hall (ok, so I now know that the hall was empty expect for me and my Uncle) I saw my Uncle and called out to him. That is when I felt someone take my hand. Naturally I looked to see who was bold enough to actually touch me in such a manner. It was a woman that I had not noticed before because she had been sitting with her legs drawn up against the wall. There was a very small child lying next to her. Now, I am not a doctor, but it was clear that the child was very ill. Naturally I immediately told my Uncle, who had come to stand next to me, to get help. He did go and get help, not because he was seeing what I was but because as I later found out, he though I needed it.

By the time help arrived of course I had come to realize what I was seeing and to realize that I could not change the echo of the past but could do nothing more then bear mute witness to it. The mother of the child was a spirit, the child itself, nothing more then an echo. The mother could not then or now accept the death of her child and has thus doomed herself to repeating the horrible moment. I did what I could to fix her state and was pleased that I was successful in doing so. However, it also ended my butt up in an emergency room at a local hospital. I had failed to response properly to my Uncle or those that he had bought to help me. ((offically I was suffering from heat stroke, I left it alone and did not mention to anyone that I live in Florida, have most of my life, heat is not a problem for me, nor did I have any of the true syptoms heat stroke, but it was easire to explain that then what had actallu happened.)

In a strange way the fact that I was removed from the island is a good thing. I would have most likely seriously damaged myself going there unprepared as I had. Will I go back? I don’t honest know. I know what is there, I know what people like me could do there. I also know as a mother of two that feeling the heartbreak of a mother losing her child is not something I want to go though again any time soon. Of course, it is the path I have chosen or chose me depending on how you look at it.

Three days later we went to visit the site where the Twin Towns used to stand. This time I was prepared and although I know what is there and waits, I chose at that time to back away from it for personal reasons. The same reasons that I chose not to travel in most of the European countries.

Spirits, echoes of the past, strong emotions that tie a “soul” to a place are always around us at all times. We must choose when and how we interact with these things, if we do it at all. I truly believe that I have no special gift to see these things, I believe that anyone can, if they so chose.

[I, Brian]

Interesting experience - and welcome to CR, Lady Selune.

Echoes...ah, now that in itself is a very interesting idea.

[alexa]

Originally Posted by Lady_Selune

Spirits, echoes of the past, strong emotions that tie a “soul” to a place are always around us at all times. We must choose when and how we interact with these things, if we do it at all. I truly believe that I have no special gift to see these things, I believe that anyone can, if they so chose.

Hi Lady_Selune,

In my opinion, you do have a special gift. And no, not every one can see them, only those opened to the source. I mean, a person interested only for money, has no chance to interect with a spirit, at least not in the way he would expect to. You know you have to open your heart to listen them.

I can only feel their presence in an awaken state and sometimes I can see them in my dreams.

Sorry, I have to go now.

See you soon,

Alexa

[Lady_Selune]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Interesting experience - and welcome to CR, Lady Selune.

Echoes...ah, now that in itself is a very interesting idea.

I use that term for lack of a better one to be honest. Not everything that we might preceive as spirits are really that. Its more of an echo of something that once happened. They can be there because a spirit is tormenting itself and needs the surrounding to compelte the scene. Such as in the case of the woman I spoke of earlier, the childs spirit was not really there, it was an echo of what brought her to be there and needed to compelete the scene for her.

[Lady_Selune]

Originally Posted by alexa

Hi Lady_Selune,

In my opinion, you do have a special gift. And no, not every one can see them, only those opened to the source. I mean, a person interested only for money, has no chance to interect with a spirit, at least not in the way he would expect to. You know you have to open your heart to listen them.

I can only feel their presence in an awaken state and sometimes I can see them in my dreams.

Sorry, I have to go now.

See you soon,

Alexa

Thank you for your kind words. But you did say it your, only those that are opened to the source. Here is where I see that everyoen has the ability to do it, most just don't for a varitey of reasons. The most common reason begin that as we begin to mature into adulthood we are told that we must put away childish things. This includes believeing in spirits or things that go bump in the night.

[Lady_Selune]

Having read many of the replies here, I feel the need to add this.

As a shaman, I do not sell my services to anyone. If and when I can help someone I am happy to do it. Mainly because it is the path that I walk and like with any path there are scared duties that simply must be performed. I won't lie and say that I have never accepted money, I have. It was always after the fact and only from those that understood the why of it. In old times, shamans of my tribe were supposed totally by the tribe. Their services were not paid for really it was more of the idea that the tribe would take care of the shaman and in turn the shaman would take care of them.

I am not in any sense a wealthy woman, heheh like most I live from pay check to pay check. It would be nice if the tribe were able to support me, it would certainly give me the time to pursue some of the things that I would dearly like to. However, these are not the old days, and most in the tribe have lost thier respect of those ways. When I accept money or other types of payment it is only from those that understand the old ways and can afford to do so. I have on occassion accepted payment for people outside of the tribe. Again, it was always after the fact and only if I was able to really help them. I never ask anyone for payment, that is jsut not my way.

Like all religions (or beleif systems) we shamans have those amoung us that are not really shamans. The want to bes more often then not ask for payment in advance and promise nothing in return. They say that the "spirits" might not be willing to help today or are unable to help, in a few cases I have heard that they are unable to help till more cash has exchanged hands.

This time of thing is to me worst then just stealing. It is granting the seeker a false hope for the sake of greed. How horrible a thing! I have read the books out there, just for the sake of knowing whats in them really. I have to admit to getting a chuckle from many of them and on ocassion finding one or two that really had good information and advice to offer. On one occasion an offer was made to me to join up with one of these want to be shamans. I was actually sorta of shocked, he really thought what I was doing what a trick some how and want me to teach him how to fool people the way I did.

If you really seek knowledge or help, my advice is to seek out someone who does not ask for payment, and if nothing else does not accept payment till the "job" is done.

[Lady_Selune]

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

sawadee all,

the only sprit seeing/interacting people i believe were the native-indians in america, though i have no proof in that, i can sense that being united with the nature should have opened the way to communicate with some unidentified earthly objects (UEO).

Althought I am as you put it native america, I would by no means say that only my people can see them. Yes, being a part of nature and not seeking to control it does help open the path, but it is not the only way by any means.

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

who decides these spirits will get in touch with? are they here with us always/ do they have some kind of special places in these grounds? created by god itself? has any religion other then islam referred to these UEOs? (i have stated somewhere in this forum that quran says there are spritis that can be contacted)
dogs barking? here whenever the morning prayer calls most dogs howl... sounds scary to tell the truth..

Both the personal that is listening and the spirit that seek to give a message decide. They are always here and there are special places. For example, White Mountian in Az. is very special to my people, we talk to our ancestors and the spirit that seek to guide us there. Personally, I do not pursume to know who created these spirits, there are a lot of theories, my court is still out on most of them. I do know how some of these spirits come to be created as I have posted earlier. Most earth based religions refer to spirits of some type. I think (and if I am wrong someone please correct me) that even Christians refer to the holy ghost and other types of spirits as well. As far as the dogs barking, one must first understand and listen to thier language to know the difference. I have heard dogs hearld the passing of a human soul, it is indeed a terrifying sound. But on the other hand I have hear dogs raise thier voices to sing with the humans, it is actually considered proper pack behavior by most dogs.

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

i dont know really, on my physicall and spritual journey i have done in s.e.asia for 2 years i have called them.. in the small mountain villages, in the jungles of cambodia, in the island of koh sahmed, in the lonely pansion near the cambodian border, what i got was pure loneliness and the voice of my own brain. i wanted a voice, a small sign that could help me clear out everything i have on mind.

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

i wasnt the right guy? magical words had to be said? 2 years of inside journey is not enuff, what if i saw/hear them? those questions are remained there as ive known that sprits even they do exist i didnt see them, i didnt sense them..

respectfully yours. erai

I can not say if you are the right guy or not. I can say that words are no more then a tool to focus the mind. They are many of us that have moved beyon dhte need of words and rites to focus our intentions, however, we when teach, we do teach those words and rites as a tool. It is very important to understand one's self. But perhaps now that you know yourself you might want to look outside of your self. You seek to communicate, communication is a two way street and can not happen when you are seeking only answers within yourself. What happens if and when you see or hear them, well that is up to the knowledge that you seek and what you are given and most importantly what you do with that knowledge.

[ISFP]

hey all

i do definately believe in ghosts, something my peers and family find odd. i've been to certain places that give me (and others with me) a feeling of danger or malignancy, so i suppose places can have their ghosts, too. i've also had the feeling of being watched, and it is a different feeling from self-awareness.