Spirit Guides - what are they?

[wayfaring]

Take a look at spiritualminded.blogspot.com for some examples of spirit guides, or inner wise guides. There is The Visionary, Michael, guide to the Field of Illusions, and Ramurabi, the Faithful Brother.

Are these just the products of a vivid imagination?
Are they really 'out there'?
Are they something else?
How do we know?

[Zagreus]

wayfaring,

I think Spirit Guides come in all sizes, shapes, and forms ... with varying degrees of wisdom, as well as greater & lesser capacities to provide guidance, or even instruction. The Greatest of all of Whom and which I am aware, are the Masters of the Wisdom (as they are often referred to among esotericists).

From an esoteric Christian point of view, these are Christ and His Church ... Christ and His Eldest Disciples, though not necessarily those of 2000 years ago. Buddhists call them Nirmanakayas, and they can consist of arhats, Adepts, or even Bodhisattvas.

Varying grades of disciples, in every country, comprised of people of all religions and even of no particular religious orientation ... serve Humanity, and in so doing, serve the Masters. This can involve assisting people with the transition - through death - to the Buddhist bardo, or the astral plane. Or it may involve instruction, while the advanced disciple is out of the body, to those of lesser degree, who are likewise attending "Night Class."

I am of the opinion that there are Devas, or Angels, who also serve as Spirit Guides to Humanity, and that one class of Deva is also intimately and increasingly involved in assisting us with healing work. They can sometimes be found at large hospitals, inspiring doctors & caregivers, and helping those who are ready to cross over to do so with dignity, peace and understanding.

There are also members of other Humanities, if as yet in small numbers, who perhaps serve as spirit guides, as they may be able to provide a unique perspective which most of us have as yet not attained. Some of these are simply kindred souls, also in incarnation, yet advanced on life's path, and therefore able to soar in the spirit ... once freed from the body at night. Others perhaps are not in incarnation, yet serve as the Nirmanakayas do, from the higher planes.

Socarates spoke of the daimon, or daimonion, which did not advise him in the positive, but rather, indicated what not to do, thus warning him of danger. This is, surely, our own voice of conscience, and evidence enough that the Divine dwells within us (already), and is not strictly without - or altogether transcendent.

I believe it is our voice of conscience, the still, small voice, which can - at the right moment - introduce us to our overshadowing Soul ... that Spiritual Being Whom and which is truly our `Inner God.' What a pity that this pearl of Wisdom is altogether missed by those who have been taught only that god is a transcendent voice in the sky ... when all along, the Soul has been here, with us, whispering - and awaiting for us to recognize, to understand, and to become still, knowing G-d.

Spirit Guides may be as close to us, and as kindred, as our own family members, having recently passed (over) ... yet have also come into a greater measure of the Wisdom, now that they are freed from the maya of the physical world. Not enlightened, but much more aware of the Light that surrounds us, and is within us, they can communicate to us at night, or even in a moment of crisis, while yet they traverse the middle & upper astral regions.

A Spirit guide may also be a thought-form, an artificially constructed entity, known in Theosophical Teachings as a `John King.' Employed by the Masters, these are not beings in the same sense we are, yet they do have an existence of their own, and they do serve a Higher purpose, even as we are learning to (by being messengers for the Masters).

We can only truly discern whether or not we in touch with a suitable spirit guide by a certain degree of trial & error. Yet if approach the spirit realm with a pure heart, a still mind, and the intent to Serve the soul and Masters ... I have utmost confidence that we cannot go wrong. For even if we do, every error is a lesson, and next time we are likely to be more careful, and to attune ourselves more closely - to the voice of the Soul.

I have been taught that if we turn to the Soul, which is within, we have nought to fear ... and we may rest assured, 100%, that we are proceeding in the right direction. It is only when we dabble, or rush in where angels fear to tread (into the astral world, seeking phenomena, seeking thrills), that we are likely to get into trouble.

So many people say a few words to this effect, then proceed to close the door to the hundreds - even thousands - of avenues to Spirit, or to spiritual Service. The Soul is within us all; it is up to each of us to discover in precisely what way we can come to know it.

Love and Light,

~Zagreus

[Francis king]

personally I think the whole concept of spirit guides is a con... ooh, isnt it lovely to think the world is a positive place, filled with higher beings who hang around in the ether just to help us... how fortunate we are... oh, what a shame I am not enlightened enough to be able to see them for myself...

...u have to be a sandwhich short of a picnic to fall for this trash, the pseudowisdom of con merchants, a crappy mix of angelic beings meets with transcendental spiritual otherworldy themes... ooh, yes, lets have another tier in the hierarchy to seperate man from God...

yet if God is so powerful and great, why does he get all these simpering archangels and nature spirits to do his bidding? Why doesn't he speak to u himself instead? Ahh, they say, God cannot do it all alone, but if God cannot, then he is not omnipotent after all, and if he isnt omnipotent, he isnt God...

have I ever seen a spirit guide? no... if ppl are that deluded they are seeing little fairies and angels and the ghosts of dead people appearing in thin air to come and give them guidance they need sectioning, not supporting...

if there really are beings out there attempting to guide me, from afar, for holy purposes, then firstly, why dont they make themselves known to me, and secondly, why don't they do me any favours..? why not help me out, now and again, why not tell me and show me, rather than pass on garbled messages via strangers in third rate churches or via the hallucinations of the naive on the religious scene..?

ooh, wouldn't it be lovely to place responsibility for our spiritual development, or lack of it, on these other, more powerful, higher beings, yet this crapola, usually upheld by Theosophists and New agers is just that, rubbish, and mostly watered down concepts which have been purloined from Hinduism....

if u want to give urself over to masters, wah hey, great stuff, but, erm, its the 21st century now, and we're allowed to be our own masters... and guess what? we don't even need the priests or even jesus to intercede for us, and we can address our Gods directly, all by ourselves... all this spiritual hierarchy and higher beings helping us and guiding us gumpf is just rhetoric for the sake of it, but doesn't it make them all sound so special, and so much better than us, the blind, who cannot see the little green men at the crossroads, helping humanity heal.... really..? they are there at the hospitals, helping? funny that, cos they dont seem to have been much use with MRSA, or C.Dif...

Madame Blavatsky, oh yes, she was so holy and talented and spiritual, she would get messages from guides, who she called secret masters, and apparently they lived in Tibet, and she would astrally project and go and see them.... a few times, she had letters materialise, right there, in her hand, seemingly from nowhere... the people watching were so impressed... however, one of her disciples would pass her these letters, through an aperture...

oooh...spooky... she was also rumoured to be a great psychic, and knew so much about the ppl who came to her seeking her guidance, but unfortunately, her great wisdom didnt come from the ether, or the secret masters, it came from extensive back ground research conducted by real live ppl who would collate information about these visitors before they even arrived... ooh, mystical...

but hey, thats just my take on it...

[17th Angel]

Whats that you say Sam? *puts his hands on his head an closes his eyes slowly...*

Ok, ok Sam....

Sam says, shut up Francis! You're gonna put us out of business....

[Zagreus]

Originally Posted by Francis king

if there really are beings out there attempting to guide me, from afar, for holy purposes, then firstly, why dont they make themselves known to me

Maybe because you're jaded, cynical and cranky.

Originally Posted by Francis king

and secondly, why don't they do me any favours..? why not help me out, now and again, why not tell me and show me, rather than pass on garbled messages via strangers in third rate churches or via the hallucinations of the naive on the religious scene..?

Maybe because you're also selfish, self-righteous, full of yourself and disrespectful of others.

Work on all this, learn a little humility, stop knocking things you know absolutely nothing about ... and acting like spirit guides, angels, Masters, etc. need Francis' permission in order to exist.

Believe it or not, it is possible to express an opinion, and say "I don't believe in spirit guides" - and even gives reasons, like, "because I think this weakens the traditional Protestant Christian notion of God as directly accessible to each one of us" ... without being so disrespectful, and making a complete ASS of yourself in the process.

You make it abundantly clear, that you obviously cannot think very well for yourself, since you are ready to believe all sorts of tripe that the skeptics and debunkers have written, in an effort to demean and belittle what they either cannot understand ... or cannot be bothered to take the time to properly investigate in order to understand. I don't know, Francis, are you incapable, or just plain lazy? Which is it?

You haven't seen fairies or spirits? Ohhh, poooor Francis. I'm sorry God hasn't shone you his favor and cut through your jaded, icy-cold exterior to bless you in this fashion. But since you clearly have the ear of the omnipotent one, and can whisper in it whenever you so choose, getting the direct response whispered right back ... then don't feel left out - while some of us carry on in our delusional little, hallucinated, contrived, charlatan-filled phantasy-worlds ... imagining that God actually cares, and that yes, indeed, the Almighty works through Representatives, instead of going through *Francis* every time he needs to get something done.

You know, leave a fool his delusions ... and let us spend our money on these silly books, New Age trinkets, and so forth. You keep tossing yours in the collection plate, and we'll just go on about our business.

Go grind your axe somewhere else. Or maybe try and find out who pissed on your cornflakes this morning? Naturally, none of can sleep until we know.

~Zag

[17th Angel]

She knows nothing about all these spirits? And you do? Because some books tell you they are there and so on? "can't think for yourself"? (that sounds familiar....) I would side with her and say it's a bunch of cock and bull.... She is self righteous, selfish and.... disrespectful? Because she doesn't buy into this? Yeah, that makes perfect sense......... And she clearly can think for herself. Not all buy into fantasy world... :/ Get used to it.

[Zagreus]

I never said I didn't have personal experience with spirit guides. Perhaps mine even include some from most - if not all - of the categories I've mentioned. Perhaps I've had my fair share of cock 'n bull, fooled myself & been fooled, as well as experienced the real thing. And maybe, just maybe, yes, I DO know what the hell I'm talking about.

Look, if you don't wanna believe something, that's up to you. But don't start talking **** about people who see things differently, and slandering those who have labored hard to shine the Light in the dark corners of this little backwoods planet. No one says you have to buy into something that doesn't make sense to you.

Originally Posted by Francis king

u have to be a sandwhich short of a picnic to fall for this trash, the pseudowisdom of con merchants, a crappy mix of angelic beings meets with transcendental spiritual otherworldy themes...

And 17th, Francis, yes, I do consider this disrespectful. I think you have to have a serious axe to grind ... and THINK you know better, to say such a thing. A discussion might actually be interesting, and useful, if people could approach it with an open enough mind to say something like:

I think a lot of this stuff is a con job, and tries to mix various ideas that don't go together. Don't you agree? Clearly not every Tom, Dick and Harry that claims an encounter with angels or enlightened beings has had one. How do we distinguish?

But this is not what Francis has said. She had, instead, made a complete FOOL of herself ... by reaching her arm out, and sweeping everything off of the table onto the floor, so to speak. If I set something on the table that you don't buy into, then pick it up, examine it, point out what seems fishy, but leave it there ... for discussion. What she has said amounts to spitting on what doesn't suit her. And what a wonderful counter-argument to the existence of spirit guides, to say, "I've got a direct line on God the Almighty, so I don't NEED some silly old spirit guide, anyway!" Dear, dear me.

My point is, you can disagree, and say why you disagree, without trying to demean, belittle, or ridicule others. And we have seen before, by another member at CR, that the safest way to try and take down someone whose ideas are threatening, or challenging to you, is to slander them, and try and attack their character. Francis is not the first to do this with H.P. Blavatsky, but she demonstrates how little she actually knows about the subject ... by parroting off something she has read, or perhaps heard. Or do I misspeak myself? Perhaps Francis is our dear Emma Coulomb, back from a brief visit to the spirit world to haunt us afresh. If you know so much about HPB, Francis, then I'm sure this will make perfect sense. I'd believe it in a heartbeat.

17th, if Francis doesn't buy into the idea of table-turning, or flowers materializing in thin air, simply because she hasn't seen this ... and because somebody, somewhere, wrote that "this sort of thing is just a sham," then that's her choice. But dear Francis, when you say that Blavatksy's great wisdom did not come from the ether, secret masters, or extensive research, you close the door to precisely the three sources whence it DID COME.

Do I know this for certain? You bet your ass I do. But I am happy to discuss it, with people who are open-minded about it, so long as I am not insulted for being so deluded as to believe such things, as Francis puts it. Perhaps then we can actually carry on the DIALOGUE, on this FORUM, since that is part of what CR was created for to begin with. Or is it too much to ask that we be willing to set aside personal prejudices, rumors and hearsay, biased accounts and cowardly calumny ... to actually approach a subject up for discussion?

I fear such may be the case.

But by all means, let us see what new piece of wit we can offer on the matter. 17th?

I will not do your thinking for you. That's your own responsibility. Or is that, too, not in vogue .... now that we have arrived in the 21st century and age of spiritual enlightenment?

/sighhhhh

~Zagreus

[17th Angel]

lol, I haven't thrown any insult at you... I just think you're getting carried away with your response to someones opinion. People come in many forms and levels.. So naturally they compare, analyse and whatever, they put their feelings and opinions across differently from anyone else... Also I feel some people are easily insulted... too easily... I think they only have themselves to blame for that.

With any topic you will, you will get two sides of the coin... I think somewhere along the line you have to tolerate what the other side has to say to a degree ;/

[Zagreus]

17th, I do understand, and I think you are right. Perhap I am over-reacting. It wouldn't be the first time. Makes me feel pretty silly, on the one hand (doesn't invalidate what I know to be true in the least), but on the other ...

... isn't it interesting that on some forums, we must walk on eggshells, and would not dream of calling believers & followers crackpots? We do not insult those of different beliefs, no matter how strange they may seem to us, simply because it's not proper etiquette, for one thing, but also a violation of the CR Code of Conduct.

I always benefit by reminding myself, from time to time, that the CoC is there for a reason. This might be a good time to reread it, and make a mental note or two to oneself. I have just done this myself; I hope others will follow suit.

~Zag

[17th Angel]

End of the day, aren't we all just crackpots?

[Francis king]

zagreus, if u look at wayfaring's post, they said- "Take a look at spiritualminded.blogspot.com for some examples of spirit guides, or inner wise guides. There is The Visionary, Michael, guide to the Field of Illusions, and Ramurabi, the Faithful Brother..."

and then they asked...

"Are these just the products of a vivid imagination?
Are they really 'out there'?
Are they something else?
How do we know?"

and so, I was offering my opinion, to wayfarer, as is the nature of forum dwelling... and as wayfarer did not specify whose opinion they wanted, I felt free to jump in and give mine...

u felt able to freely offer ur opinion, zagreus, and so then I should be able to offer mine... I did not call u, personally any names, and suggest that 17th is might be right, and ur overreacting... I did not say, "oh, and btw, Zag is a fool for believing in such- each to their own, after all...

didnt realise u were such an ardent fan of mde blavatsky, zag...

[Zagreus]

No problem, Francis ... I just get tired of seeing people trash her, after awhile. I look at her like a sister. An elder sister, maybe, but I should be so lucky as to ever find my way into her family.

Anyway, apologies for overreacting.

Peace,

~Zag

[17th Angel]

apologies all round, everyone cool, group hug? .. No? Well, at least we are back to a nice calm ocean

[Virtual_Cliff]

I wonder if this discussion is essentially meaningful. Medieval Christians postulated a whole hierarchy of angels, archangels, seraphim and the rest. Other Christian cultures have a host of major and minor saints whose task is to petition God on behalf of the faithful. Catholics pray through the BVM. Protestants pray through Jesus. All trinitarians differentiate the three persons of the trinity.

Then again Eskimos have seventeen words for snow.

Perhaps there is no "right" answer. It's just a matter of what makes sense to us.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Virtual_Cliff

Then again Eskimos have seventeen words for snow.

Yup...