Son of God?

[Faithfulservant]

QUOTE=earl]I think the term, "Son of God," is interesting to ponder in general. We do have Romans 8:14- "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

[/quote]
Yes we are all sons of God.. but Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

I would also like to point out for discussions sake.. that "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?". is the first and only time that Jesus called God.. God instead of Father. Ask yourself why.

I would also like to clarify something that I believe.. When we sin our sins are forgiven... but God is omniscent omnipotent and He transcends time...I do not believe that our sins are forgotten. I believe that He wants a personal relationship with us and provided a way for us to get close to Him because He loves us THAT much. We cannot get close to Him when we are full of iniquity and wickedness. Forgotten is a whole different ball game.. So like the verse in Hebrews

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

You cant play God for a fool He knows our hearts.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Yes we are all sons of God.. but Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

I would also like to point out for discussions sake.. that "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?". is the first and only time that Jesus called God.. God instead of Father. Ask yourself why.

I would also like to clarify something that I believe.. When we sin our sins are forgiven... but God is omniscent omnipotent and He transcends time...I do not believe that our sins are forgotten. I believe that He wants a personal relationship with us and provided a way for us to get close to Him because He loves us THAT much. We cannot get close to Him when we are full of iniquity and wickedness. Forgotten is a whole different ball game.. So like the verse in Hebrews

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

You cant play God for a fool He knows our hearts.

How do you interpret this verse FaithfulServant from Hebrews?

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


& how do you interpret what Jesus said to Mary here when he called the Father his God?

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Wouldn't this in 1 John, also include each of us as a begotten son of God? So, somewhere, at some point Jesus was also begotten. ETERNALLY begotten comes from the Nicene creed, I dont think it is worded like that in the bible, which is why I do not believe in the whole Nicene Creed.

I believe I am a begotten son of God, a joint heir with Christ.
You see, God had to give his ONLY begotten Son before he could beget the rest of us. Jesus went first & we follow him by way of inheritance.

God begets the spirit of man, not another diety(s). Right?

The same word used in begotten (for us) is used when it explains when (this day) Jesus was begotten, through the scriptures. ONLY, is only there when it is refering to Jesus as the only begotten.

1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


I am only asking these questions Faithful, because some of the things you are saying (the way it is worded) about the son of God sounds like polytheism & I know that is not what you believe in. If you dont want to answer, I understand.
I know we dont believe the same, but I really do try to understand what others believe, even if they cannot understand what I believe.

I do agree with you, no one is going to fool God by letting sin turn into iniquity, by trying to hide it or making excuses for it.

[Faithfulservant]

1 John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

*How can he be in the bosom of the Father and be on earth at the same time? If Christ was begotten at birth.. how can He be the only one that has seen God or heard Him speak.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He is not a created son of God, but a begotten Son of God, the only begotten Son of God. He never had a beginning, for He was there in the beginning (John 1:1). In His prayer to the Father, He spoke of "the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5).

the OT prophecy about His coming human birth (Micah 5:2), we are told that His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." His human body was, indeed, "brought forth" from "she which travaileth" (Micah 5:2). But long before that, He had been everlastingly going forth from "the bosom of the Father." As seen in John 1:18, He was still "in the bosom of the Father," even while He was on Earth manifesting the Father.

Christ is "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), for as He said "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

He did not become the only Son by His virgin birth. He was the only unique Son from eternity, "set up from everlasting" (Proverbs 8:23).

The phrase "only begotten" in the above-mentioned verses, in the original Greek language, is monogenes

Combination of two words: "monos" which means "only" or "alone," and "genos" which means "of the same nature, kind, sort, species" That is not the same as "begotten"

A better translation might be "only one of its kind" or "only unique" or just "only," but not "begotten." So we are looking at a potential mistranslation since begotten implies created which is not what the greek word means.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God is a unique and one-of-a-kind being.

One reason that I feel the correct translation is important is because the mistranslation "only begotten" has been used to support false teaching about Jesus and His nature they teach that Jesus is not eternal, but rather that He was begotten or created just like other mere men.

Yes we are joint heirs with Christ.. as we abide in Christ we recieve the benefits of being in Gods family... thats just awesome.

Bandit you and I have gone this route when you first started posting I cannot claim to understand how you get your beliefs its as alien to me as the trinity is to you.. me and Dor talk about you all the time.. I am by no means polytheistic you know that.. you can go back to the trinity thread from months ago and reread what we discussed. I really have no desire to go another round with you on the deity of Christ because Im not compelled to do so and havent been since you told me you had a hard time having your beliefs be accepted. I would rather embrace you as a brother and discuss our love of Jesus and the bible. That I feel compelled to do.

[Dor]

The way I see that verse.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The way I take that verse is that God is merciful and pardons us of our unrighteousness, sins and iniquities all through his mercy and not by anything we do(other than believe and have faith). God is all-knowing. God knows that occurred. However, having forgiven us, He treats us as if the sin had not occurred. God does not hold our sins against us. So while I do not believe God literally forgets our sins they are not held against us in any way.

[Bandit]

ok , I am fine with that you know. I know some trinitarians are still polytheistic & I was wanting to make sure here. I only ask these things sometimes to better understand what others are seeing. Never do I want to sound like confrontation in an unkind way to any of the true believers, so please dont ever think of me that way.

Thank you for explaining & loving me & I love you guys too, a lot. I love all the brothers & sister too, wether they see one , two , or three & however they put it together.

[earl]

Again I think it's interesting to reflect on alternative language translations of English verses from the Bible. I've mentioned the Douglas-Klotz book, "The Hidden Gospel: Decoding the Spiritual Message of the Aramiac Jesus," at this forum recently. Interesting book as he looks at alternative translative meanings when viewed through Aramaic meanings of english words. So, in the book, he takes the verse from John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life," and offers an alternative Aramaic-based translation. He mentions that "begotten" as relates to close Aramaic terms could mean "single, solitary, united" & offers the following alternative, Aramaic-based translation of that verse:

"For Unity so loved Diversity,
all the worlds of form,
that it brought you a child of Unity,
fulfilled in all aspects of self.
so that whoever would have
the same confidence in their own fulfillment,
like the earth underneath supporting all
would not fade with their form,
but continue, from world to world,
with and in the ever-living Life."

Do I know who/what "Jesus," "Christ," "God," "Divinty," or even what I essentially am? Not a clue. But maybe that's a good thing as perhaps once we're sure we know we stop knowing and discovering the new, as yet to be revealed facets of all of the foregoing. Have a good one, Earl

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

Here are some interesting points on this topic.

* In the Bhagavad-gita Krishna say "I am the father of all living entities".
* Does he need sex like we to be a father?
* No. He is directing the souls into this material nature just by his glance
* therefor, we all have our secondary material father and mother who give us material body but
* our original father is God. He is the father of us - the spirit soul

Jesus is the special son of His father
* in the Vedic literature there is a category of a specially empowered living entities
* they are chosen by God and can be empowered by
* gyana-shakti - a potency of spiritual knowledge
* Srishti-sakti - a potency for creating
* then there is a potency for ruling
* and the potency of bhakti or devotion

# Jesus is described already before 5000 years ago in the Bhavishya-purana
# at that time his appearance was predicted
# he is mentioned to be a saktiyavesa-avatar of God / the specially empowerd living entity
# He is said to be empowered by bhakti-shakti or devotion to God
# that was obvious from hid preaching
# he was preaching devotion to God
# the Bhavishya-purana mentions also his birth place and the names of his parents
# actually special incarnations of God and the coming of special messengers of God are all predicted in the Vedas (Mohamed is also mentioned)

** specially empowered personalities are considered as good as God
** that doesn't mean they are God but rather that they represent a special aspect of God
** They are especially sent by God to perform activities on His behalf
** therefor, they are as good as God and
** they may be worshipped with equal standard as God
** God likes to see his special devotees to be glorified
** all who perform such worship get the mercy of both God and His representative.

# My understanding of trinity is that of unity in diversity
# they are all different godly aspects but one in interest
# to bless the people of this material world