Some Other Kind of Christianity?

[truthseeker]

I know I stand accused of not understanding the Trinity - just to throw that out there.

Now I must say that I don't understand how one can claim Christianity yet:

1) not believe that Jesus was a man

2) believe that Jesus performed magic

3) believe that Jesus did not die on the cross in a sacrificial manner but did so by murder.

I know this is dangerous territory. Before the attacks come rolling in, I'd like it to be understood that: I am not trying to convert anyone; I am not trying to be converted; and I respect the diversity of this forum. In Christianity there are a lot of divisions. However, this kind of understanding appears to me to not be along any line of Christianity according to the Gospel or anything thereof. Can someone give me a word?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I know I stand accused of not understanding the Trinity - just to throw that out there.

Now I must say that I don't understand how one can claim Christianity yet:

1) not believe that Jesus was a man

2) believe that Jesus performed magic

3) believe that Jesus did not die on the cross in a sacrificial manner but did so by murder.

I know this is dangerous territory. Before the attacks come rolling in, I'd like it to be understood that: I am not trying to convert anyone; I am not trying to be converted; and I respect the diversity of this forum. In Christianity there are a lot of divisions. However, this kind of understanding appears to me to not be along any line of Christianity according to the Gospel or anything thereof. Can someone give me a word?

Most likely Truthseeker because people perceive things differently, even though they may be observing the same thing at the same time. It also depends on what was taught to the individual or group of like minded people, and other infuences brought in to bear, and what they are willing or unwilling to accept.

Finally, there is always the "interpretation factor".

v/r

Q

[didymus]

I didn't understand your question.

[Bandit]

Now I must say that I don't understand how one can claim Christianity yet:

1) not believe that Jesus was a man

2) believe that Jesus performed magic

3) believe that Jesus did not die on the cross in a sacrificial manner but did so by murder.

I believe Jesus was a man with the spirit of a man and became one with God at Jordan the same way we all do. (not a godman)

I dont think it was magic, it was the power of God that raised up Jesus and performed miracles through Jesus.

I believe Jesus layed down his life as a sacrifice, not murder. He could have easily escaped the trial and ran from it.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I don't understand how one can claim Christianity yet:

1) not believe that Jesus was a man

2) believe that Jesus performed magic

3) believe that Jesus did not die on the cross in a sacrificial manner but did so by murder.

I guess that isn't a question, is it?

What I am talking about is there are groups who are Christians but believe that Jesus performed magic, instead of recognizing his works as miracles. And also that Jesus was something other than a man with the Spirit of God in Him, maybe something like one that isn't quite flesh (for lack of a better way of explaining it at this time). And that he was murdered instead of a sacrifice for the sins of humankind. That's like me saying that I am Buddhist but I don't believe in reincarnation. I want to understand that if the core concept of a religion is missing, what makes the groups hold on to the title?

[Basstian]

Judgement and condemnation are such dirty words in Christianity. (and people know it)
Every time I post something I know it will be judged by all who read it. I know it will be condemmed by some.
Truthseeker you have asked a very good question. Without sounding what I feel is judgemental but rather earnest in wanting an answer.

I myself see those who deny Jesus or His sacrifice as wolves in sheeps clothing who know it or not are sent in to decieve the flock. Paul and Peter warned of these type and Paul said they would not spare the flock. Speaking to people who understood sheep unlike most today.
Sheep wont run when attacked on all sides but rather huddle and remian quiet as they are slaughtered.
One sheep alone and out of sight of the flock will not flee from danger. But stand and slilently Die.
I recall a huge conflict in Idaho about releasing wolves back into the wild to control Deer and Elk populations. Sheep herders knew what it meant for there flocks and opposed the release knowing there entire flocks could be destroyed overnight by just a couple of wolves. See wolves will kill them all just for fun it seems and because they dont run can do it quickly without much noise. And know opportunistic wolf pack is going to chase a fast deer when a flock of dumb sheep is near by. The US goverment now pays for any sheep or livestock Killed by Wolves in the Northwest.

It is amazing how easy it is for wolves to be in this flock we call christian and be devouring sheep left and right with nobody standing against them. Because they (sheep) would seem judgemental if they did.
If my bible shows someone to be a wolf than it judges not I.

Oh how much safer this flock would be if we followed the shepherd.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I guess that isn't a question, is it?

What I am talking about is there are groups who are Christians but believe that Jesus performed magic, instead of recognizing his works as miracles. And also that Jesus was something other than a man with the Spirit of God in Him, maybe something like one that isn't quite flesh (for lack of a better way of explaining it at this time). And that he was murdered instead of a sacrifice for the sins of humankind. That's like me saying that I am Buddhist but I don't believe in reincarnation. I want to understand that if the core concept of a religion is missing, what makes the groups hold on to the title?

i kind of see what you are saying now about the 'core' and I think Basstian did a nice, sincere job answering that.
I too am at a question as to how ALL OF THE SUDDEN, we have many versions, trying to claim the 'title' yet in many different forms and teachings than what was first delivered.

'imaginations'

I want to understand that if the core concept of a religion is missing, what makes the groups hold on to the title?

i understand you question now. 'groups' is good, because it is coming in many 'NEW' forms and very fast!. it is hard to tell, but i would say it is part of the flood of lies we are to experience and i think we are entering right into the heart that.

i will be thinking about this.

[Lorin]

The humanity of Jesus is a deep issue-when did Jesus become devine-was he already at birth? At the transfiguration? At the resurrection? All kinds of issues come from "what did He know and When did He know it?" As well for Mary. I think this is an issue that deeply divides Protestants and Catholics. And it is key to understanding the Trinity and the nature of our faith.

Do we need divinity to let Jesus guide our lives? At this time my own church is deeply concerned with Jewish-Presbyterian relations and the "Messianic" church in Philadelphia which seems to be trying to make Jesus acceptable to Jews. I have been unable to determine just what this means. Jesus as Prophet is easy work, even Jesus as Messiah is achievable in the tradition of the Suffering Servant, quite a separate idea from Jesus as God- Jesus as God cannot be accepted and remain a Jew my Jewish friends tell me.

Myself, I seek and struggle with all of the material of the entire Bible-and try to practice Christianity as a guide to good manners and mental health. One needs all one's strength just to achieve that.

Happy Easter. Kyrie elison. Christ is Risen.

[I, Brian]

Hi Lorin, and welcome to CR.

[Bandit]

I am still waiting for truthseeker to see the direction of the thread.

I am not sure, but I dont think it is necessarily about different doctrines of the godhead, but rather making Jesus out to be something 'different' and less than what he is.
Some are claiming Christ, but deny he was the sacrficial lamb to take away the sin of the people...as if he was a jeanie, magical fairy with rubber skin.

Some are mixing magic with the power of the living God.

So far, those who claim he is Lord and Savior here at CR, accept each others understanding of when, where and how in the godhead. The problem is when someone denies he is Lord and Savior by way of Calvary and that through his blood we receive remission of sin. Some are trying to enter a different way.

Jesus is at the very top, and he is more than just another teacher or prophet. Some put him on the same level as Buddah and Muhammed. This is where a line is drawn in Christianity, not so much the word 'divine' (when and where) and its often over used emphasis.

Up to the 1600s, people were still being killed if they did not accept the godhead a certain way. People do not do that today.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Most likely Truthseeker because people perceive things differently, even though they may be observing the same thing at the same time. It also depends on what was taught to the individual or group of like minded people, and other infuences brought in to bear, and what they are willing or unwilling to accept.

Finally, there is always the "interpretation factor".

That's a good point, Quahom. To preach the Gospel is one thing but we have to rightly divide the information as well. I think we get caught up alot in believing in our preachers or we get strung up on our own understanding. I mean, what we experience is valid, but when we step into representing a religious sect by claiming it, then I would think that it is because we believe in the overall philosophy. Progression of understanding is good. But when we step outside of a belief system to such a point that it can no longer be identified by those who are supposed to share it, aren't we venturing into other territory? The Gnostic belief, for instance. And Christians who believe in Mysticism. I don't think they are wrong. But I don't see it as Christianity either. I want to understand.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

That's a good point, Quahom. To preach the Gospel is one thing but we have to rightly divide the information as well. I think we get caught up alot in believing in our preachers or we get strung up on our own understanding. I mean, what we experience is valid, but when we step into representing a religious sect by claiming it, then I would think that it is because we believe in the overall philosophy. Progression of understanding is good. But when we step outside of a belief system to such a point that it can no longer be identified by those who are supposed to share it, aren't we venturing into other territory? The Gnostic belief, for instance. And Christians who believe in Mysticism. I don't think they are wrong. But I don't see it as Christianity either. I want to understand.

This is me Q, speaking for self, and of my own opinions...At the risk of being admonished for repeating this (and I am not specifically addressing this to anyone), I will say again...Get the Milk before attempting to chew the Meat. Accept the core of Christianity. Then start with the basics (Gospel of John comes immediately to mind). Then based on your up bringing, go to the other three Gospels. Once these four books are comitted to heart and soul, then begin to explore the books of the Bible (i'd stick with the lighter books at first, before tackling the more serious/severe/austere books), until you have covered every book in the Bible. (this is an adventure story you really can't believe exists in the BIBLE, but it is there!)

At this point, you may wish to stop, for it is more than enough for your satisfaction. For those who do not, you have a solid anchor to keep your vessel steady at bay, should you venture farther...

There is magic and mystery and murder, and love, and hope and triumph and war, and catastrophe, and hope, and just about everything that is on the number one best seller's list of books to read...right here in the Bible!

Leave the gnostics be...they know it all. And mystics? what do I know about them? Unless you consider catholics, mystics (I'm afraid we are not very good at parlor tricks or moving mountains).

This here Truthseeker is core Christianity 101. If we want to explore we go into other areas of the Comparative-Religion forum...

But here the general consensus is to explore from the core of Christianity. And all who are interested are welcome.

Again this is me Q, speaking on behalf of self, and is how I see it.

...of course that and 4 bits might get you a cup of coffee...

v/r

Q