Solution for Humanity!!!

[islamis4u]

thank you for the post.

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it teaches them directly to students through the Suttas and through the instruction of monks and nuns. if you are asking about specific teachings regarding these things i could find those for you if necessary though you'd need to narrow down your question a bit.

[/size]

that's not a question, that's a statement. one which is demonstrably false, i may add.

respect for any being comes from the individual being.




the right to vote. the right to self determination, the right to determine how they want to live their lives, for starters.


it is the same that independence for males allows for. seperating human beings by their gender into society roles seems archaic and outdated.

it sounds like you are suggesting that women should not be free to make their own choices and to be fully participating members of society, is that a fair assessement of your view?

I replied this and adding something that look every person have to play a part to improve a society okay so everyone jointly have to do something that it could improve the society if it is that then in any way he or she can!! look Islam do tell you what to wear it just prescribe you the limit in which you can choose so that you and also society would be save from that factor!!!!It saves the woman from the male lust eyes!!

that the American legal system makes its records public is the problem that you are having. how many women are raped in Islamic socieites? there was even a very recent case where a woman and man were both gang raped in Saudi Arabia and the woman was punished!!! the rapists were let go and the man that was sodomized was put into prison!! can you imagine that?! being the victim of a hate crime and put into prison for it.

One thing is also noted in the report is that the least rate of rape in countries are those which are Islamic okay!!!! I say their would be some rapes but not many in Muslim countries as non-muslim countries have many!!! It is due to the teachings!!!

why, however, would you focus on the negative? do you think that it supports your point? you are not so keen to have people focus on the negative parts of Islam as you, i think, indicated that this gives people the wrong view of Islam. i would suggest the same to you, focusing on the negative aspects of Western socieites will lead you to the wrong view.

Islam have no negative aspect!!!

the problem is not with the women but with the men for having such lustful and bad intentions. if you are seriously suggesting that men do not look at women in hijabs with lust or bad intent then you are seriously deluding yourself.

I tell yes you are right i say that man should also have to have right gaze you know before saying to woman to doing so Quran teaches man to lower their gaze when they see any woman muslim or non-muslim, but you it is not only with man you both man and woman have to play a part in it okay!! Islam strongly says to man to lower their gaze!!! If a woman is in Islamic dress then tell me what are they looking at? a piece of cloth you i may agre again for your sake but it stops 55% to the man to seeing a woman!!
You just give me answer in one and two that a girl with mini skirt 1 and girl in hijab second 2 whom they will put more bad eyes on just give me answer in 1 and 2 i would not entertain any other playing with words okay!!!

i would ask that, since you agree, that you not fall into the Muslim apologists trap of thinking Al Qur'an is a science book? it only reflects poorly upon Al Qur'an.



i have no desire to educate you on the Scientific Method nor why your use of the terms "theory" and "hypothesis" are incorrect.

i will tell you this. if you think that a nebula is smoke then you don't know what smoke is nor what nebula are.

By saying so that Quran is not book of science it is book of signs i also say that it have scientific signs but no unscientific sign in it!!!!!

not all western media does this. you realize that Al Jazzera is broadcasting in the West, right?

I do not listen to al jazzera saying and do not know much about it!!

i think this is your own view. there are plenty of terrorists that are not Muslims, the IRA for instance, are not Muslims. Action Direct are not Muslim, the Red Brigade are not Muslim. terrorists that declare themselves to be Muslim are Muslim terrorists.



yet Muslims claim to have done it. you can argue with them about whether or not they are Muslims.

i think your view of the Muslim terrorist issue is clouded by your affiliation to the tradition. of course not all terrorists are Muslims nor are all Muslims terrorists. i would be happy to read, though shocked, any major media publication that was stating that all Muslims were terrorists. i don't think that there are any but, if you can show me, i will write letters to their editors and explain how they are incorrect.

Im saying the same thing the thing is that the western media do not just directly point out this but what do is indirectly okay like making terrorist act to make the picture like it is done by Muslims or they if any done which actually not done by Muslims to be put in highlight so much that it make others will to think that Muslims are terrorist i again say they do not say directly you its a trick okay and if any non-Muslim act of terrorism is found they do not point out or highlight it much!!!!

[islamis4u]

as you say - no difference. it is a barbaric sentence applied to either sex. this really doesn't help your argument. and what happens if one of the people involved can't be lashed for medical reasons? can one be fined instead?

It is Islamic law and what God sent us!! Okay who are you to say us that it is wrong!!!! He may be saved from the lashes under what the situation is!!!

gosh, what a nice guy. so you're going to have people killed as a deterrent. they do that a lot in the US - and in iran. there's no evidence it stops people committing crimes.

You may have to compare the rape rate then okay in these country every 32 seconds a woman is raped in America it is report of 1996 now it would have increased!!! It may not have stopped the crime but it helps much in stopping it!! Least rate of rape are in the Muslim countries!! it is not barbaric okay!! if you know that something will have this end or result in thing or your act which you are doing will result in a thing then why you do that? you will blamed you knew that and then you did that!!!! If punishment is not the right way then you tell me the right way a strong punishment can only stop it!!!! Then i would we should jail a person who robes it is barbaric!! if you say that sex done by two persons man and woamn with agreeing both of them is right i do not say anything!!!
Okay tell me that if a man godforbide god forbide rape your mother or your sister or your wife what will you do with him then be practical okay!!!

as for "it brings shame to a family" - my family would never want me killed for bringing shame to it and if your family would then i don't think much of them. this is exactly what i meant in the other thread when i said pakistan was a basket case. until people grown the hell up and act like adults the cycle of stupid, retributory violence will continue.

and you think this is "islamic"? my G!D, muhammad must be spinning in his grave, surely this isn't what he had in mind. what an appalling way to think

.

What are you doing why do you think you are right if you are right that do not mean other is wrong this is what you said, you willl now come and teach me urdu we know what Islam is, your other post can answer these questions which is posed by you!!!

[islamis4u]

Think that a beautiful naked woman comes in front of you and invite you to do something wrong how can you control yourself be practical you know you are a man!!! If you know something excitation of someone to call to sex is done by a seeing a sexual figure you may know so!!
this was not on any cost make this post with so much in like that but to clear that look both have to play a part i it a man can not only be blamed for it!!!!

add these words in azure24 reply i have given it was not editing so i have to make a new post

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

No I agree in SOME forms they are perhaps forced or told... But the real way of Islam, I would say "choose".....

i do not know what you meant by real way of Islam i say yes Islam do not infiorce but tell some limits of Islamic hijab and it is in Surah Ahzab

[greymare]

Im am just pointing out a difference here. But, when I walk down the street or in a public place I look people directly in the eye and smile. I usually get a smile or a 'good morning" in return. It is lovely and friendly and it says to the world. HELLO. IM HERE . I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. GOOD DAY TO YOU ALL. If people do not meet my gaze I do not think badly of them. Its just the way that they are. but, I am curious ,islamis4u, if everyone walked around and as soon as they see a member of the opposite sex they lower their eyes, how would they feel if someone who was like me (eye contact) was in their midst? To me, if people dont look me in the eye, its disrespectful, I think that maybe I cant trust them, that they might be hiding something. Do you understand what I mean? I also prefer people to look me in the eyes when they are talking to me, or listening to me. Its an effective way to tell if someone is lying or not. It is also respectful and means that you are paying attention to what is being said. In my job, we are taught to always meet the customers eyes and smile .We are encouraged to make eye contact, its just very curious to me that your culture is totally opposite. Like I said, Im just pointing out the differences. curious, isnt it?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

You may have to compare the rape rate then okay in these country every 32 seconds a woman is raped in America it is report of 1996 now it would have increased!!!

Ok, fine. Have it your way. A woman is raped every 32 seconds.

But consider this. There are 86,400 seconds in a day and 365 days in a year. This means that a potential 985,500 women in the U.S. are raped per year. The figure may actually be lower considering that some women may be raped twice or more times each year, so it may really be 200,000.

The total U.S. population is over 200 million. Half of them are women, so there are just over 100 million women. 985,500 is less than 1% of 100 million, so the other 99% of the total population of women in the U.S. are not being raped.

Rape is definitely a problem, but it only affects a small portion of the total population. The U.S. is a big country. Having a woman raped every 32 seconds isn't frequent enough to be a big social problem. The other 99% of the population of men and women are busy making themselves useful going to work and making money.

Been visiting a lot of night clubs and stripper clubs lately? Well you have probably only seen less than 1% of America. How do you know if the rest of America isn't a holy paradise? How long have you actually lived in the U.S.?

Listening to what local religious leaders say about a country far, far away doesn't necessarily make you knowledgeable about the actual reality there. It is easy for adherents of a particular religion to think that others are corrupt, decadent, and drooling away with lustful orgies, but such a life is expensive. They may not be adherents of a particular religion, but that doesn't mean that they don't desire good behaviour in others, and if you live in a society where people expect you to behave, you don't go around having sex irresponsibly. It may cost you your job and livelihood.

You don't have to be religious to desire good behaviour in others, or to want to behave. There is such thing as a virtuous man and virtuous woman in the U.S., and it is a way of thinking followed by 99% of the population. Some are religious, some or not. Some are atheists.

It's easy to think that because Americans are wealthier than those in your country that they are behaving badly because they have time to have fun. But the reality is, most of them behave themselves. Americans are not rich enough, yet, to be blissfully naughty with sex.

Ever heard of erectile dysfunction? A lot of people in Western countries aren't happy with the sex they are getting. Men with trouble maintaining erections. Prostate cancer and the need to deal with it. The problems in one's career.....Men and women not understanding each other's emotional needs and not meeting them in the other person. Bad or not enough foreplay. Women not reaching orgasm and getting turned off prematurely.....and premature ejaculation

For a lot of people, sex is a chore.....it is a maintenance job.....it is a disappointment.....a cause of depression......a sign of failure.....an utter nuisance.

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Ok, fine. Have it your way. A woman is raped every 32 seconds.

But consider this. There are 86,400 seconds in a day and 365 days in a year. This means that a potential 985,500 women in the U.S. are raped per year. The figure may actually be lower considering that some women may be raped twice or more times each year, so it may really be 200,000.

The total U.S. population is over 200 million. Half of them are women, so there are just over 100 million women. 985,500 is less than 1% of 100 million, so the other 99% of the total population of women in the U.S. are not being raped.

Rape is definitely a problem, but it only affects a small portion of the total population. The U.S. is a big country. Having a woman raped every 32 seconds isn't frequent enough to be a big social problem. The other 99% of the population of men and women are busy making themselves useful going to work and making money.

Been visiting a lot of night clubs and stripper clubs lately? Well you have probably only seen less than 1% of America. How do you know if the rest of America isn't a holy paradise? How long have you actually lived in the U.S.?

Listening to what local religious leaders say about a country far, far away doesn't necessarily make you knowledgeable about the actual reality there. It is easy for adherents of a particular religion to think that others are corrupt, decadent, and drooling away with lustful orgies, but such a life is expensive. They may not be adherents of a particular religion, but that doesn't mean that they don't desire good behaviour in others, and if you live in a society where people expect you to behave, you don't go around having sex irresponsibly. It may cost you your job and livelihood.

You don't have to be religious to desire good behaviour in others, or to want to behave. There is such thing as a virtuous man and virtuous woman in the U.S., and it is a way of thinking followed by 99% of the population. Some are religious, some or not. Some are atheists.

It's easy to think that because Americans are wealthier than those in your country that they are behaving badly because they have time to have fun. But the reality is, most of them behave themselves. Americans are not rich enough, yet, to be blissfully naughty with sex.

Ever heard of erectile dysfunction? A lot of people in Western countries aren't happy with the sex they are getting. Men with trouble maintaining erections. Prostate cancer and the need to deal with it. The problems in one's career.....Men and women not understanding each other's emotional needs and not meeting them in the other person. Bad or not enough foreplay. Women not reaching orgasm and getting turned off prematurely.....and premature ejaculation

For a lot of people, sex is a chore.....it is a maintenance job.....it is a disappointment.....a cause of depression......a sign of failure.....an utter nuisance.

I was talking about not the individual rape cases i was talking about the rate as it whole look im talking about rate remember rate okaay it is too high okay or more then that any other Muslim Country have i do not know if you understand what rate means!!!

I do not said all the Americans are like that but i say most of them are like that, look brother i just want to say that the lack of religious teachings give rise to this okay look brother i do not see you do no took any other point this means you agree to it then okay you just differ in this and agree to my all other points then?

Look i tell why the rape rate rate is so less in Muslim countries because they have religious teachings with them brother the teachings are so beautiful look brother look i say thousand times rape is wrong rape is rape is wrong this will never decrease the rape rate you know the thing which will do it is that something in your heart it will say look my God do not like this we must stop it or a strong punishment can decrease it if you have so strong punishment then ultimately it will decrease brother i say many in America stay away from sex, brother tell me the most deadest disease in the world is AIDS what are causes behind it? it is you know what!! Brother if someone apply Islamic teachings look how this problem can be decrease.

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by greymare

Im am just pointing out a difference here. But, when I walk down the street or in a public place I look people directly in the eye and smile. I usually get a smile or a 'good morning" in return. It is lovely and friendly and it says to the world. HELLO. IM HERE . I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. GOOD DAY TO YOU ALL. If people do not meet my gaze I do not think badly of them. Its just the way that they are. but, I am curious ,islamis4u, if everyone walked around and as soon as they see a member of the opposite sex they lower their eyes, how would they feel if someone who was like me (eye contact) was in their midst? To me, if people dont look me in the eye, its disrespectful, I think that maybe I cant trust them, that they might be hiding something. Do you understand what I mean? I also prefer people to look me in the eyes when they are talking to me, or listening to me. Its an effective way to tell if someone is lying or not. It is also respectful and means that you are paying attention to what is being said. In my job, we are taught to always meet the customers eyes and smile .We are encouraged to make eye contact, its just very curious to me that your culture is totally opposite. Like I said, Im just pointing out the differences. curious, isnt it?

Yeah it is different and that is what im pointing out from my First post here the difference between western culture and Islamic culture!!! and i say yes you are only pointing our difference but i may tell you if you know about medical that someone get excited to do sex is by the gaze of an eye, a rape is also done by the excited person of opposite sex and excitation of a body of a person to do sex is done by the eye!!!

[greymare]

my friend , if someone has looked at me and raped me (IN THEIR MIND ONLY< NOT ACTUALLY) then that is their business. I cannot control what others think. You might think that this is a bit niave. Lustful thoughts are just that, lustful and thoughts, not necessarily actions. i have lustful thoughts regularly but I dont action them. most people dont. its called self control .

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

i do not know what you meant by real way of Islam i say yes Islam do not infiorce but tell some limits of Islamic hijab and it is in Surah Ahzab

I mean the free will choice of said faith... I am happy to be where I am, and I am more than happy to tell others of my faith... Sweet.... That to me is the true way live by example...... But to force your faith upon another or be blind to the fact that perhaps others may see it in a totally different light, a different way is the wrong way to roll. Demand by example....... So let's all try and live by example.... It takes everyone time brother.... Look at it like this...

Say there is a woman that is coming to Islam, but doesn't wear a hijab.... What do you see in that statement?




You read the statement? I bet you focused on the minor hijab fact? Not the fact that this woman is wanting to learn a way of peace.....? Make sense?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I was talking about not the individual rape cases i was talking about the rate as it whole look im talking about rate remember rate okaay it is too high okay or more then that any other Muslim Country have i do not know if you understand what rate means!!!

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I do not said all the Americans are like that but i say most of them are like that

Well that is what you say. But why should I agree with you? Do you live in the U.S.? Do you live in a Western country? I may not live in the U.S., but I do live in a Western country. I know what it's like to live in one. I know that most women don't get raped. When I go to work, school or university and I meet someone who smiles, shakes my hand, looks me in the eye and talks to me in a confident manner, I think, this person would never have been raped by anyone (at least not recently). They'd be seeing a psychologist, having a nervous breakdown, be very angry, withdrawn or for someone reason not turn up at work, school or university.

To me it makes sense. I don't hear stories about people getting raped when I am eavesdropping on their conversations and gossip. If there was enough rape happening, I would hear about it from at least somewhere. Sooner or later I'd hear the word "rape" mentioned among the people I see around me. I'd listen, tune in and eavesdrop on their conversation and think, this is not good. I will think, this should not be happening in my country, in my neighbourhood. But I rarely hear about it.

What I was saying was that, even if a woman was raped every 32 seconds, it would only have been enough to affect only 1% of the population. That is the case whether or not a woman is raped once or multiple times in a year. According to the mathematics, the time interval you specified (32 seconds) is not small enough to make it a problem that affects 99% of the population in a year. I have to say then, that rape is very uncommon in the U.S. So 99% of the female population doesn't need your religious teachings because they are not being raped. According to the mathematics, you'd be wrong to say that most of them are like that. No, most of them are not like that.

I can understand you like saying that most of them are like that, but even if you believed that, do you live in a Western country, let alone the U.S.? If not, how could you possibly know? Where do you get this information about the society in which I live? Do you get it from your religious leaders? Do you get it from the newspaper and television? Do you get it from your family and friends?

Are your sources reliable enough to say that most of them are like that? And....I have already shown how, based on your statement that a woman was raped every 32 seconds, it would only affect 1% of the women in the population. So even the information you have stated implies that only 1% of the women are being raped in a year.

You can't trust your religious leaders, because most of them have either never been to the U.S. or other Western countries, and even if they did, never really interacted enough with the general population to know them well enough to have accurate perceptions about them. They mingle with Muslims in that country, but not the general population. Religious leaders of Abrahamic traditions, particularly those of Islam and Christianity, often cook up wild, outrageous, sensationalist stories about how the rest, the so-called "heathen population" is behaving. But whatever corrupt mindset they think the "heathen" possess, most of it is untrue. These religious leaders want to make your/our religion look good, so they brag about how your/our religion's teachings have helped us become better people. But most of it is propaganda and sensationalism. So you can't trust your religious leaders when they say the U.S. is the rape capital of the world. They are deceiving you, even though they might think that they are telling you the truth. They want you to think that so that you think that that is the reason why you will continue to adhere to whatever tradition it is you follow. That's because they actually believe that stuff themselves.

So what if you got it from a newspaper? Well, then we ask the journalist who wrote the article. Do they live in the U.S.? Same argument as before. It's just propaganda and sensationalism. The journalist doesn't really know the American people. So what if you got it from your family and friends? Same argument again. They never went to the U.S.

So when people say most of them are like that they are talking about beliefs that they got that came from unreliable sources. They say that because they want to believe that. They are talking about a people they never knew. A lot of Muslims and Christians want to believe that the so-called "heathen" are romping away their lives in lustful orgies. But if you actually visit that country, that society, that culture, that community, you will find that it just doesn't happen. They may not follow your/our religious traditions but very often the society and culture itself has its own values and teachings and these values and teachings train people how to behave. But you wouldn't know that because you haven't actually lived long enough in the U.S. to really know what values people have over there.

I believe there are much better reasons to follow a tradition than talking about how often people are raped, particularly if you live in a society where rape only happens to less than 1% of the population, based on the information that you have given!!!

Originally Posted by islamis4u

look brother i just want to say that the lack of religious teachings give rise to this okay

People are not always taught right and wrong by religion. Very often, they already know what is right and wrong because their parents, friends, the news or society as a whole tells them it's wrong. People see rape as wrong. They see adultery as wrong. They see lying as wrong. They see murder as wrong. They see all these things as wrong because the people around them hate it. Apart from labelling these things as wrong, society often teaches people other things to discourage bad behaviour. So no, religious teachings are not always necessary for good behaviour. I say that even though I have a religious background and religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by islamis4u

then okay you just differ in this and agree to my all other points then?

I didn't mention your other points. This doesn't mean I agreed with them. Maybe I just thought they were unimportant or just didn't care about them.

Originally Posted by islamis4u

Look i tell why the rape rate rate is so less in Muslim countries because they have religious teachings with them brother the teachings are so beautiful look brother look i say thousand times rape is wrong rape is rape is wrong this will never decrease the rape rate you know the thing which will do it is that something in your heart it will say look my God do not like this we must stop it or a strong punishment can decrease it if you have so strong punishment then ultimately it will decrease brother i say many in America stay away from sex, brother tell me the most deadest disease in the world is AIDS what are causes behind it? it is you know what!! Brother if someone apply Islamic teachings look how this problem can be decrease.

I agree that saying rape is wrong isn't good enough. But a society or culture often has values, teachings and traditions that discourage rape. You don't need values or teachings that are divine or religious to discourage rape. I can formulate a philosophy for discouraging people from raping. If people like that philosophy, and if I know how to shape society to reduce the rate of rape, the rate at which crimes happen, then the rate of at which crime and rape happens will decrease. Western societies achieve this by giving people jobs, careers, computers, playstations, television, movies, candy, tasty food and other toys to play with and enjoy so that they have better things to think and dream about than raping women, stealing, murdering and robbing banks.

That's right. You don't always have to give people a religion to get them to behave. Sometimes all you need is some toys and candy for them to enjoy. If people have more toys to play with and more candy to eat, the crime rate will drop. This is the toys and candy society.

[Islamfac]

Originally Posted by greymare

my friend , if someone has looked at me and raped me (IN THEIR MIND ONLY< NOT ACTUALLY) then that is their business. I cannot control what others think. You might think that this is a bit niave. Lustful thoughts are just that, lustful and thoughts, not necessarily actions. i have lustful thoughts regularly but I dont action them. most people dont. its called self control .

argh.. i hate these debates. They are so common when talking with people from some of these countries.

I agree with you here.

[greymare]

sorry, what countries are you meaning? and welcome again islamfac/

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

Yeah it is different and that is what im pointing out from my First post here the difference between western culture and Islamic culture!!! and i say yes you are only pointing our difference but i may tell you if you know about medical that someone get excited to do sex is by the gaze of an eye, a rape is also done by the excited person of opposite sex and excitation of a body of a person to do sex is done by the eye!!!

Are you lead around by your eyes, or by your heart? When your eyes are full of adultery, is it not a covetous heart that prompts you to act on it? (2 Peter 2:14)

Jesus even said that adultery begins in the heart, and that if your eye causes you to sin, then don't look! (paraphrase) You can live without your eyes, but can you truly live with a corrupted heart? You are supposed to be in control of how you react to your sensory imput. If you can't control yourself, how does that make you any different from the animals? (It really doesn't make you much of a man, does it?)

Jesus said,
Matt 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

[Bishadi]

Knowledge!

The truth of existence.

There is no religion on earth that combines the four colors of men.

The only truth is that knowledge evolves.

Just as no religion can show you how to utilize the internet.

so in reality, it is the evolution of words combined within the mind that allows understanding to involve your choice to contribute and associate.

Same with the knowledge of life; religions share how to go to 'their' heaven, but no where do religions share how life go's.

So as knowledge has evolved allowing life to continue, so does the combining of knowledge allow understanding to exist.

The solution for humanity is for the single form of knowledge to uniformly combine the religions, philosophies and the sciences.

Ah..... then the children can learn the truth uniform to all existence with the misleading guise of beliefs.

For example: did man come from mud?

Did woman come from man?

Did man create words?

Let's let a thinker help us;

“To live in accordance with the essence of things is the premise of the moral life. One cannot live in peace of mind without at the same time being in harmony with reality.”

“The premises of a moral life is based on a covenant with reality.”

“No life is authentic that is in conflict with the order of the universe.”

Socrates

And not knowing the order of the universe constitutes a serious handicap in living a moral life!

So without knowledge to understand how can peace reign?