Should churches always be open?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

im thinking homeless people, maybe drunks. either the church takes it upon themselves to not let certain people in, or people avoid 24/7 churches because homeless people are in there, or everyone is allowed in and society is cool with it. i know the church is for the needy but does everyone know that? no shoes no service?

No, that's why the local churches run "soup kitchens". That is a 24/7 operation, and parisheners can contribute a bit of their time to help run and maintain such (thus helping those in need).

This here issue is us about going into church at anytime (for prayer, or a need to feel closer to God). In church, many feel the "veil" between heaven and earth is thinnest (I know I do). It is holy ground, and people want to be able to be on such when they are in need....finding a locked door, really sucks.

[BlaznFattyz]

then there should be a portion of the church set aside to be open 24/7. sounds good to me, and it might save someone or bring them back. we should all maybe write to our churches and and least give the suggestion.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

then there should be a portion of the church set aside to be open 24/7. sounds good to me, and it might save someone or bring them back. we should all maybe write to our churches and and least give the suggestion.

Or those with business sense (and a heart of gold), should start one in their local areas...then go to the churches elders for assistance.

[I, Brian]

Re: the comments about a church being a people, not a building - that's what I mean about the building being a "House of God".

To me the building was never simply a place to meet - it was somewhere to open the ordinary person to the extraordinary God. If anyone's ever walked around an old church building by themselves, perhaps especially at night, you'll know what I mean.

As for groups worried about the buildings being vandalised - again, I think this is a key area where the church has completely lost touch with modern society.

Remember in the good old days when Jesus hung out with the backside of society and got slated for the company he kept? And then the monks and priests who used church buildings to welcome the lost, the homeless, the destitute, the troubled?

And now?

Sorry, church is closed - you're no good.

If a church cannot embrace society enough to keep its doors open all of the time, then it has failed to try to engage society. Material concerns shouldn't be an issue in spirituality.

If the silver is so precious, put it somewhere else. If the building needs protection, then set up protection.

I think the fact that many churches in the UK at least shut them off from society speaks volumes about their failure to engage society.

And, if any Christian church is worried about vandalism when open 24/7, then train up a new religious order in use of the quarter staff.

I'm seriously not kidding - I can see such a presence having a very positive impact on the growing generation. The church as open, welcoming, but protective. Isn't that what religious buildings should be, for God and Faith?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And, if any Christian church is worried about vandalism when open 24/7, then train up a new religious order in use of the quarter staff.
I'm seriously not kidding - I can see such a presence having a very positive impact on the growing generation. The church as open, welcoming, but protective. Isn't that what religious buildings should be, for God and Faith?

You mean like some kinda security monks and preists? lol... Don't you think they'd end up getting hurt and killed?

Say lil jimmy crack head needs a fix.... theres an open church.. he can steal stuff from this church here that is open and sell it or trade it for a fix, any means possible... that priest is in trouble ;\ Who from an apprantley non violent religion wish to put themselves in that postion?

[lunamoth]

I'm getting an image of ninja Priests, lol!

I hear what you're saying Brian and think you are right. But I would bet that, like in my mother's church, the churches know you're right too but can't afford or find the volunteer power to have someone in the building 24/7. The church is beautiful and it is a sanctuary in the world, and there's not much in the way of silver or gold or anything else worth taking. It's a small, aging, poor congregation and they barely pay the heating bills as it is. Typical of many 'mainline' congregations in the States these days.

The non-denom mega churches probably are more or less open 24/7! They have congregations in the thousands around here and always have some kind of activity going on.

In the tiny tiny church I go to now the chapel is open weekdays. It also struggles to pay the heating bill. It has its doors open to any group that wishes to meet there, Mother's groups, AA, etc.. It runs a thrift shop for the needy; it had a popular preschool and kid's daycare program but they could no longer afford to keep that going. I'd like to organize a soup kitchen there at least one night a week. The churches do reach out the their communities.

While what you suggest is a lovely ideal to work toward and I would bet that there are churches that accomplish this, just jumping into the ideology would probably be the end of the little churches. A couple major acts of vandalism and they would no longer be able to pay for repairs and the building upkeep.

luna

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I'm getting an image of ninja Priests, lol!

Get some Shaolin monks to secure the case.. Wouldn't fancy lil jimmy crack heads cahcnes agaisn't a group of Shaolin monks.

[I, Brian]

Agreed not all churches could support volunteers to protect the churches - and certainly it would be helpful to remove obvious incentives for people to steal/damage the building (do we really need that silver font?).

But as for protection - I'm under the impression that there were religious orders in the Middle Ages whose remit was to protect the church and its people. Whilst some of those maybe didn't always have the best reputation (Order of St John, Knights Templar) I figure there has to be place in modern society for a modern interpretation of a "knight", based on protecting churches and their people using non-lethal methods. I suggested quarterstaff's as a non-lethal weapons - it's a good way to tap into not simply romanticism, and create an impression, but also allow for an Honour Code among the protectors.

Some of the larger churches with multiple properties in urban areas could focus on leaving just one or two properties open like this, rather than all of the properties they own. Church of England comes to mind especially.

I know some people may think the whole idea is a little nuts - but I think a sense of purpose, meaning, and honour could be really appealing for dissatisifed youth in modern society, who otherwise wouldn't be attracted to setting foot in a church. I really think it could work.

Perhaps I should set up the order itself and freelance it to those churches that would want to get involved.

[Francis king]

sounds great brian... sounds a bit like those new yorkers, what were they called..? Guardian angels? however, it the concept was modified a little, to take some aname type influences, and the occasional dance tune, it would be genius... I'd vote for it...

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Agreed not all churches could support volunteers to protect the churches - and certainly it would be helpful to remove obvious incentives for people to steal/damage the building (do we really need that silver font?).

But . . . as I was saying before, is it really the church buildings that need protection? What about the people who go there?

And what if some thieves and vandals come along to cause some damage?

Church buildings aren't really as important as the people that make up the church. The whole point of having a church building is to have some temporary shelter and an environment that creates an experience of God.

But what if a thief, vandal, drug addict or juvenile gangster comes charging erratically into the premises? What if indeed they do cause damage? Could it also be an opportunity for them to experience God?

Maybe they won't experience God straight away. But an open church may definitely send a message to people charging in to do nothing else but cause damage.

1) Whoever built the church and runs it left it open so that anyone could come in
2) A building left 24/7 has an honour system. People must obviously believe that some good will come out of leaving it open, even if someone steals from it.

That would ring a bell. Thieves and vandals running into a church may have something to reflect about. It may definitely leave an impression. You're welcome even if you're here to do damage. We believe something good will come out of it.

You don't necessarily need people there 24/7. The church may be left unattended. In a sense, church buildings could be considered public rather than private property -- open to anyone. But the difference between a church building run like that and normal public buildings is that you are not obliged to "respect" it. We could just as well leave it open to abuse and not protect it with State laws.

I reckon church buildings don't need to be protected by State laws at all. It's God that looks after churches, not people. I wouldn't mind attending a church that has graffiti squibbled all over the premises, even with broken windows. People should go there to experience God. The prestige and reputation of that building isn't important.

Church buildings could well have a double life: it's visited by two kinds of people at different times. At daytime, it's visited by Christians who go there to worship and experience God. At night-time, it's visited by thugs and bandits who go there to mess the place up.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I know some people may think the whole idea is a little nuts - but I think a sense of purpose, meaning, and honour could be really appealing for dissatisifed youth in modern society, who otherwise wouldn't be attracted to setting foot in a church. I really think it could work.

Ok, may the idea is a bit nuts, but I was just being idealistic.

[Francis king]

nothing wrong with idealism... worked for jesus...