Shiloh

[Dondi]

In Deuteronomy 12:5-6,13-4, G-d directs the children of Israel that there will be a specific place in the Promised Land where they are to implement the burnt offerings and sacrifice system. I am assuming that according to Joshua 18:11, the place chosen at that time was Shiloh, since the tabernacle, and presumably the Ark of the Covenant, was set up there. In fact, in Joshua 22, the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and 1/2 tribe of Mannaseh constructed an altar on the other side of the Jordan that gave concern for the rest of Israel as that wsn't the designated site for sacrifice, though it turned out that it was built just as a witness.

My question is: If Shiloh was the original site for sacrifices unto the Lord, why did it move to Jesrusalem? I understand that David moved the Ark to Jesulalem and Solomon's Temple was built and G-d's presence filled the Temple at the dedication. I'm thinking this was a matter of convenience, but I wanted an answer from this forum. Does Shiloh today have any high spiritual significance? Since the command is in the Torah to sanctify this area for sacrifices, is that a standing command? And if so, is there a possibility being a site for the Third Temple? Thank you for your thoughts on this.

[bananabrain]

I am assuming that according to Joshua 18:11, the place chosen at that time was Shiloh

aha. well, that's not correct. the idea was that when we conquered the land, G!D would then specify, via a prophet, the "place that I will Show you", which is a phrase that is mentioned many times in the Torah. this, obviously, turned out to be jerusalem, which was under the control of the jebusites until it was conquered by king david. the advantage of jerusalem was that it was not in the territory of a powerful tribe and, therefore, counted as neutral territory. so shiloh was merely the "resting place" of the ark. after jerusalem was Announced and the Temple built, sacrifices had to be brought there instead. i have a feeling (though i'm not sure, will have to check) that what stayed at shiloh was the "sanctuary", or "tabernacle" if you prefer, what we call the "mishkan", in other words the "travelling temple" that the israelites carried in the wilderness. i assume that the *second* ark (the one built by moses on Sinai, not the "official" ark built by betzalel) therefore probably stayed in shiloh, but i could be completely wrong.

Does Shiloh today have any high spiritual significance?

not that i'm aware.

Since the command is in the Torah to sanctify this area for sacrifices, is that a standing command?

no, because that's not actually the official Temple area, but a "resting place".

And if so, is there a possibility being a site for the Third Temple?

absolutely not. the third Temple will have to be where the first and second were, on the mount itself.

of course, it may not actually be very like the first two - there are opinions that say that the third Temple will be "a Temple of light".... whatever that means, but if it means we don't have to remove the dome of the rock and the al-aqsa mosque that's probably a good thing. at any rate i'm glad it's not me that is in charge of this.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

i assume that the *second* ark (the one built by moses on Sinai, not the "official" ark built by betzalel) therefore probably stayed in shiloh, but i could be completely wrong.

of course, it may not actually be very like the first two - there are opinions that say that the third Temple will be "a Temple of light".... whatever that means, but if it means we don't have to remove the dome of the rock and the al-aqsa mosque that's probably a good thing. at any rate i'm glad it's not me that is in charge of this.

b'shalom

bananabrain

So there were TWO Arks? Was Moses' Ark used until the "official" Ark (which I'm assuming has the gold covering cherubim and mercy seat) was built by Betzalel? Suppose Moses' Ark is found. Could it be used in the Third Temple?

Temple of light, huh? But isn't the Temple supposed to be built according to the latter chapters of Ezekiel?

[bananabrain]

So there were TWO Arks? Was Moses' Ark used until the "official" Ark (which I'm assuming has the gold covering cherubim and mercy seat) was built by Betzalel?

yes. this is basically from rashi on deuteronomy 10:1 and midrash tanchuma.

Suppose Moses' Ark is found. Could it be used in the Third Temple?

good question - i don't know.

Temple of light, huh? But isn't the Temple supposed to be built according to the latter chapters of Ezekiel?

prophecy is not easy to interpret - especially stuff to do with the messianic age. i'm just saying there are various opinions - i can't tell you which one is right in this case. shiloh was, i believe, destroyed before the ark was moved to jerusalem, too - and was temporarily moved to nob. rashi also says that, contrary to what i said above, they used to take the moses ark out to battle whereas the betzalel ark was kept in the sanctuary.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[ygalg]

there is only one ark
deuteronomy 10:1 speaks of stone tablets

[bananabrain]

*and* also a wooden ark. i see i'm going to have to post the actual reference:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/rashi/....asp?AID=36234

look under deuteronomy 10:1 in both the main text and the rashi (it's the fourth portion).

b'shalom

bananabrain

[pohaikawahine]

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record .... but the symbols keep coming back ....


if it is possible that the metaphors or allegories tell us that the temple is actual within us and the ark is located in the center of our own brains .... then several symbols would seem to suggest that the "traveling temple 'miskham'" is actually us, and 2nd "ark" would also be in us, and the 3rd "temple of light" will be us when we reach that place within that opens us to the world of spirit and knowledge .... when we become whole again, when we are enlightened (thus the temple of light) .... both interpretations could be correct in that we have outside of us the symbols (the temples, the mount, the ark) to remind us of who we are and the path to freedom or the promise land .... as above, so below .... but the real power lies inside and this is where we must go to open the "hall of records" (the study hall) .... just a few thoughts to toss into the stream .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[ygalg]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

*and* also a wooden ark. i see i'm going to have to post the actual reference:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/rashi/....asp?AID=36234

look under deuteronomy 10:1 in both the main text and the rashi (it's the fourth portion).

b'shalom

bananabrain

I accept your correction