Sexual orientation

[Thomas]

There has been much discussion about sexual orientation and practice on the religious threads, but I thought I would rather bring this point up under a sociological than a religious heading.

Whilst I happen to believe that sexual orientation is a genetic factor in a person's makeup, sociological factors and learned activity cannot and should not be ignored.

(And what is being aired today is largely a post-Victorian repression versus a post-pop liberalism.)

As an example I cite the Greeks, who are attributed with intrododucing pederasty (which I doubt) and notably the patriarchal Sparta.

But my own best knowledge lies in the samurai ethos of Medieval Japan. Here 'the art of manly love' was the rule rather than the exception, and there is not one single figure, I think, of a warrior from that violent era who did not have his favoured consort. The tales are endless, from the death of Oda Nobunaga at his own hand whilst his favourite consort Mori Ranmaru — then just 17 years old — fought off allcomers on the steps of a burning temple, to the famous Uesugi Kenshin (1530-1578) who sliced off the sleeve of his robe rather than wake the boy sleeping at his side.

In 17th century London there were more male brothels than female.

And the English public school system stands without need of further explanation.

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So whilst orientation is a factor, it is far from the sole aspect of the issue. Sexual morality and sexual ethics are cultural, and are learnt. The age of consent varies among cultures (and even States in the US), and in less repressive times a sexually active man was as likely to bed another man as he was a woman.

I recall the fluttering that accompanied "Interview with the Vampire" and the implication of a 'homosexual tension' between the two lead characters. This is a misreading of the times. Any sexual tension between two such men would be that ... sexual tension ... homosexual or otherwise is a later sociocultural determination.

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What one homosexual commentator has observed is the unhappy forcing of the agenda by the 'gay' community, which seems to insist that 'camp' is the only rightful and proper expression of homosexuality. Thus it is hardly surprising that 'gay pride' demonstrations which range somewhere between a pantomine parade and a debauched bachanalia do little to further the cause of the rights and freedoms of a marginalised segment of society to be accepted by the mainstream.

When I read of 'Platonic relationships' (which, by the way, is between an older man and a younger boy, and is not at all asexual), when I read the lives of the Greek philosophers, the Spartans, the samurai, even the great spies of the early modern era (and I could discuss at length why homosexuals have proved so successful at the 'great game') — I often read tales of nobility, discretion, strength of character ... when I recall my childhood neighbour Douglas Darnell (a dressmaker and designer for Shirley Bassey), some of my graphic design co-workers and clients (more than a few of whom i have lost to HIV) ... I find people ... just like other people ...

... and when I look at many of the antics of the 'gay community' today, I find a gross distortion of the lifestyle and morality, the values and ethics, of those whom I know, and for whom I have a great fondness and respect.

Thomas

[Thomas]

Am I the only one who finds "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" offensive towards homosexuals, in its promotion of a shallow stereotype?

Thomas

[wil]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Am I the only one who finds "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" offensive towards homosexuals, in its promotion of a shallow stereotype?

Thomas

No. Of course I think much of the comedy and movies put forth by BET (Black Entertainment Television) are demeaning blacks. But that is humor in the US.

I think it is indicative of a reaction to oppression on both counts. Once out, go way out, flaunt it, in their faces.

Nice treatise on the past Thomas. Flies in the eye of folks who wish to think the homosexual revolution is one of the signs of the end of times.

[Thomas]

Oh, I think there's plenty of sociological evidence to show that the extremis of the gay agenda, along with right-wing politics, fundamentalism in all its forms and most of all the obsession with self-image etc. is, if we look at historical evidence, a sure sign of a culture in crisis and decline.

I don't happen to view these 'end times' as biblical, but sociological ... or is that sociopathalogical ...

Thomas

[wil]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Oh, I think there's plenty of sociological evidence to show that the extremis of the gay agenda, along with right-wing politics, fundamentalism in all its forms and most of all the obsession with self-image etc. is, if we look at historical evidence, a sure sign of a culture in crisis and decline.

I don't happen to view these 'end times' as biblical, but sociological ... or is that sociopathalogical ...

Thomas

fall of Rome, I agree.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Thomas

And the English public school system stands without need of further explanation.

Yet perhaps you could humor those of us who have no idea what the English public school system is like, and what sexual practices, tensions, and undercurrents may exist within it?

Thanks,
P.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by wil

fall of Rome, I agree.

as in Rome . . . do as the Romans do!!