Sex Magik

[Chela]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste all,


as an aside.... in binary math
0+0=0
1+0=1
1+1=10 .

the mathmatical "reality" of 1+1=2 relies on everyone using the same symbol set and same math base. if we change the symbol set or the numerical base, we change the math and thus find that using these types of "proofs" for the ontological reality that we all observe is likely to lead us into an unwarranted conclusion.

the formula of 1+1=2 is only true for a base 10 system. in binary, as you've probably guessed, it's a base 2 system

Yes but every system of representation is interdependent, and therefore all the same. Ten is defined by base 10 apples, or 1010 base 2 apples, or "whatever" in some other base, but they are all referring to the same number of apples, and, every representation can only refer to other known representations to define its value. The only real way to know about this value is to see this number of apples, and understand the concept of "1" and "2."

[Erynn]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Thanks, Erynn. You don't speak in symbols, am I right?

Not usually when I'm writing in prose.

What do you say about Vajradhara's kind of sex magik. If I see at this point correctly, he seems to be heading toward the symbolism approach to sex magik.

Anyway, let's wait further and see where Vajradhara is in fact drifting to.

I think that most approaches are valid. Symbolic approaches are just as valid as any other. The only thing I object to is when people insist that there is only one valid approach, and that we must all restrict ourselves to their interpretation.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Dear Erynn, you say:

"I think that most approaches are valid. Symbolic approaches are just as valid as any other. The only thing I object to is when people insist that there is only one valid approach, and that we must all restrict ourselves to their interpretation."

I have one big objection against people writing in symbols, namely, they don't also provide a listing of keys as we would expect people to who use acronyms or abbreviations.

Because they don't give us a list of their symbols and meanings even their fans can't agree among themselves what they are intentionally communicating if anything at all.

Or they are just making fun of us, and trying to keep themselves busy at the same time appear clever by writing in symbols.

In my case, as soon as I see people writing in symbols I take off right away.

If they want only their select readers to know their messages, then they should as I said provide a listing of keys.

Forgive me for being harsh, but that is one very stupid way to communicate.

What they should do is to hide their writings in some storage -- maybe in a bank safe deposit box, with clear indications to their disciples where to find the bank and the access word or number or the physical key.

I can see, though, it's not a foolproof method of restricting one's messages to one's own chosen select readers.


About sex magik energies of which you have knowledge and experience, can you be more specific about them?

This is for adults or readers with parental guidance, what I am going to say now.

In my case an orgasm dilates my nostrils and clear them up should they be a bit congested. Do sex magik energies produce some physiological or emotive effects. Emotive effects like making you feel so optimistic and not occupied with the more depressing realities of life and the world?

Pachomius2000

[Erynn]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

I have one big objection against people writing in symbols, namely, they don't also provide a listing of keys as we would expect people to who use acronyms or abbreviations.

Because they don't give us a list of their symbols and meanings even their fans can't agree among themselves what they are intentionally communicating if anything at all.

Many things are written in symbols, from poetry to novels to the sacred texts of pretty much ever religion I can think of. Very few of them are supplied with an interpretive key. Some meanings appear self-evident, while others are more hidden and multivalent.

In my case, as soon as I see people writing in symbols I take off right away.

And that is your right. Other people might take it up as a challenge, and enjoy working out the puzzles and subtleties.

If I speak of a salmon in my poetry, I may be speaking of the fish, but it's equally likely that I'm talking about the manifestation of wisdom in Celtic mythology, of the depths of Age because it is seen as one of the world's oldest animals in Welsh and Irish mythology, of sustenance that generates and regenerates a people through the salmon's generous sacrifice as takes place in the Native spiritualities of the US and Canadian Pacific Northwest. I could be speaking about the faithful journey home to the stream that gave a person their spiritual birth. I might just be thinking of what would taste good for dinner

Writers who speak in spiritual terms are struggling with things that are difficult to describe under the best of circumstances. This is why most mystics speak in poetry. It can't be spoken in plain prose. When I say that I've had an experience where I was filled with stars, how can I explain that to you so that you'd understand?

Forgive me for being harsh, but that is one very stupid way to communicate.

Sometimes, it's the only possible method of communicating.

About sex magik energies of which you have knowledge and experience, can you be more specific about them?

This is for adults or readers with parental guidance, what I am going to say now.

In my case an orgasm dilates my nostrils and clear them up should they be a bit congested. Do sex magik energies produce some physiological or emotive effects. Emotive effects like making you feel so optimistic and not occupied with the more depressing realities of life and the world?

In some cases, the energy is created and used to gain contact with deity. In others, it is focused to power a spell or charge an object to some purpose. In some cases, it is to generate energy that will be stored for times when it is needed, for health or magical reasons. Some seek internal transformation, and use the energy so created to improve their control of internal energy centers and advance their spiritual progress through various meditative and visualization techniques.

The effects of sexual magic can be and often are emotive and/or psychological in nature. In these cases, the magic may be focused on the worship of a partner or partners as the embodiment of deity. They may be an adoration of the partner or partners as individuals or as Priest/esses. When working individually in this mode, it can cause a sustained positive emotional effect that allows the magicians to do very constructive internal psychological work. This can range from fighting biochemical depression to working through body image issues, and beyond.

I know there are people who use sex to help with things like migraines or menstrual cramps, but it's never worked for me, and I don't see that as being magical technique so much as relying upon a concentration of all those lovely endorphines that make you feel good. This is not unlike the way many atheletes experience a sense of euphoria after they've hit the wall and driven themselves through it to ride on the endorphine rush.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Well, I guess your fondness for symbols and sex magik energies could be in a way if I am right, a very long shot, representative of poets and mystics (and a lot of mystics are mistaken and they don't know it.... hehehehe).

So, we have the world run effectively by engineers, but man's ultra biological aspirations are the domain of poets and mystics. Who's more important? Reasons pro and against apply to both sides respectively.

But everyone still has to check into the emergency room of the hospital for any crucially medical urgency, first, before calling in the priest or the imam or the poetically or mystically inclined adept.

Vajradhara is not talking yet, after that reminder about the binary and the decimal systems of quantitative language, which Chela most instructively for us all reacted to.

One last item, for adults only and kids with parental guidance.

Honestly, sex is all right but what do you think, does everyone have that automatic reflection resulting in the conclusion:

Omne animal triste post coitum.* Which Roman writer said that?)

I do have that reflection all the time. Hope nothing is wrong with me, just reflective, part of which is "Is that all?" And so much trouble and mess for mankind?

Pachomius2000

*All animal sad after coitus.

[Erynn]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Well, I guess your fondness for symbols and sex magik energies could be in a way if I am right, a very long shot, representative of poets and mystics (and a lot of mystics are mistaken and they don't know it.... hehehehe).

Ehhhh... could be, doc

Poets and mystics are certainly drawn to symbolism. Many are also drawn to sensuality as a wellspring for their creative voices and for their inspiration. But there are poets and mystics who also embrace asceticism as well.

So, we have the world run effectively by engineers, but man's ultra biological aspirations are the domain of poets and mystics. Who's more important? Reasons pro and against apply to both sides respectively.

Both are important. In current society, the engineers have ascendance, and so ethical decisions are often made without vision and an appreciation of depths beyond the surface of technology. This leaves so much of our society emotionally and spiritually bereft, seeing and appreicating only the material aspects of life, and in deep denial of the creatures that we are -- shunning touch, shunning that which questions the visible, shunning anything that is connected with pleasures both spiritual and physical.

Asceticism is an appropriate path for some, but to put most Westerners into an even more physically ascetic path than is currently espoused by our society, in my opinion, intensifies and emphasises the worst of our cultural faults. Westerners, in general, need to be encouraged to embrace the body/spirit connections, embrace meaningful pleasure, embrace immanent spirituality rather than striving for constant and exclusive spiritual transcendence.

But everyone still has to check into the emergency room of the hospital for any crucially medical urgency, first, before calling in the priest or the imam or the poetically or mystically inclined adept.

I'm quite mystically and magically inclined, but if I get a broken leg, let's set it before we start doing the energy work! There are places for many approaches to healing, some more suited to different circumstances and situations than others.

Honestly, sex is all right but what do you think, does everyone have that automatic reflection resulting in the conclusion:

Omne animal triste post coitum.
*All animal sad after coitus.
Which Roman writer said that?)

I do have that reflection all the time. Hope nothing is wrong with me, just reflective, part of which is "Is that all?" And so much trouble and mess for mankind?

I think it depends on the individual, like so much else in life. I rarely feel sad after coitus. Sated and sometimes utterly exhausted, sure. Sad? Hard for me to feel sad in the face of that kind of happymaking energy.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Paging Vajradhara... I am still waiting to know what's the genuine sex magik from the Buddhist or Tantric or Taoist schools of sex, magik, that is.

Dear Erynn, a side note, I got the gender of Chela mistaken, thinking that he was a female, but it turned out from his own declaration that he is a he. Are you by gender female or male? I don't know why, but all the time I keep having you in my mind as female. Is it your style of writing, or your spirituality?

Maybe you have hints in your posts that you are this or that gender, but I must have missed it.

Sorry, if I have taken you for female but you are male or whatever.

No matter, notwithstanding that you are into a lot of ideas which I honestly can't seem to feel left out for not being 'thrilled' with, I find you a most congenial person, with your feet just the same always in terra firma. On that score we are compatible people.

Paging again, Vajradhara, are you still with us?

Pachomius2000

[Erynn]

I'm biologically female, emotionally androgynous.

[Erynn]

No matter, notwithstanding that you are into a lot of ideas which I honestly can't seem to feel left out for not being 'thrilled' with, I find you a most congenial person, with your feet just the same always in terra firma. On that score we are compatible people.

I've never felt it necessary for folks to agree with me, or to be equally thrilled with all the same things I am. I find it much better if people can simply work to come to mutual understandings and walk away with both parties feeling more informed about the world and other people around them. Mutual respect is a far greater goal than surface accord.

Thank you for your kind compliment.

[Lady_Selune]

Originally Posted by Erynn

I suppose I should have expected such a reply to my post.

"Polarities" are not just internal. Polarity isn't about a person's dangly bits or lack thereof. It's about what's within. Some systems don't work on polarity at all, but rather on a base of triplicity. Male/female heterosexual balance is not the only kind of balance in the universe.

You can call it "black" or perverted or evil or misguided, or whatever you like, but I have known these folks for years, and don't see that they are creating chaos, depleting themselves, or in any way damaging others.

I agree with your totally on this oen. Read my post below for more.

[Lady_Selune]

It wonderful to see the difference reactions to the same act can have when you add a religious out look to the actions.

I have practiced sex magik for many years and for a varitey of reasons. I do not follow a dark path because I chose not to. None of the things I have done involving sex magik have ever been done to cause harm and none ever have caused harm. When I was married my husband was my partner, when I was not the person that was my parnter was someone who had a need.

Sex is simply the tool by which the enegies are drawn, a very good tool, but a tool never the less. Its like using the blood of a menstrating woman in a ritual. This blood as is sex are very powerful tools.

Tools can be used for ill or good, the tool has no care as to why it is used. It is the intent of the person that is using it that is the problem.

While I would agrue that there is always an alternative to using sex magik, I simply can't come up with a more fun way to appomlish certain things in a timely fashion.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Quote: No matter, notwithstanding that you are into a lot of ideas which I honestly can't seem to feel left out for not being 'thrilled' with, I find you a most congenial person, with your feet just the same always in terra firma. On that score we are compatible people. Unquote -- Pachomius2000


I've never felt it necessary for folks to agree with me, or to be equally thrilled with all the same things I am. I find it much better if people can simply work to come to mutual understandings and walk away with both parties feeling more informed about the world and other people around them. Mutual respect is a far greater goal than surface accord.

Thank you for your kind compliment.
__________________
Erynn
Poet-Terrorist for a Better Society

TOUCHE (with the acute accent on the E)

I will be back later, when Vajradhara should have given us his mind. He is the author of this thread, and our authority(?) on sex magik from the camp of Buddhists and Taoists.

Pachomius2000

[I, Brian]

Bill, just to let you know that I have indeed split off your post to start a new thread.

New thread is here:
New Souls?

[Chela]

Originally Posted by Lady_Selune

Sex is simply the tool by which the enegies are drawn, a very good tool, but a tool never the less. Its like using the blood of a menstrating woman in a ritual. This blood as is sex are very powerful tools.

Using this blood is inadvisable because it is dirty energy. That energy is being removed from the woman for a reason. Using it is like using feces, which, is although used by some people, is dirty too.

[Erynn]

Originally Posted by Chela

Using this blood is inadvisable because it is dirty energy. That energy is being removed from the woman for a reason. Using it is like using feces, which, is although used by some people, is dirty too.

By some groups, particularly among Dianic groups (usually consisting of women only) menstrual blood is considered to have great power, and to connect a woman to the energies of the Dark Mother or to the Crone aspect of Goddess.

It is often seen as sacred because it is given without wounding, because women bleed without dying. In this way it is considered a very sacred mystery by many Goddess-oriented groups and individuals. Those who work with menstrual blood in this way would in no way equate it with feces or uncleanness. It is seen as symbolic of clearing away, but only in the sense that a field may be cleared for planting -- and what is cleared is composted and returned to the earth to be used to fertilize that field during the growing season.

In some cultures it is regarded with dread and feared, but that isn't necessarily because it is seen as unclean . It is sometimes just seen as extremely powerful -- harmful to men, but not to other women, who also bleed. Among the Ulchi of Siberia, such blood might occasionally be used in the formulation of a curse, but this is certainly not the only use one might have for such blood.

In some women's spirituality or Goddess groups, menstrual blood is used for anointing for certain kinds of rituals. Menstruation is a mark of women's maturity and the blood is seen as symbolic of the passage from childhood to adulthood and therefore regarded with celebration among many women's groups. Its appearance in this context is regarded as sacred and transformative, not as toxic waste. It can be seen as similar to a snake shedding its skin -- the skin that is shed symbolizes what has gone before the new life, and to have a snake's shed skin is a powerful talisman of transformation in this same vein. Menstrual blood can be used magically to invoke transformation when applying this principle.