Sex and Religion...

[ame]

I have some questions about the sex and the muslim religion...
like what are the sexual ground rules for the muslims?
It is true that it is detested but not forbidden by Islamic law for a man to even look at his wife's vagina ? WHY????
what is the religious reason to that???

[thipps]

Originally Posted by ame

I have some questions about the sex and the muslim religion...
like what are the sexual ground rules for the muslims?
It is true that it is detested but not forbidden by Islamic law for a man to even look at his wife's vagina? WHY????
what is the religious reason to that???

H| ame,
There are two clear rules i am aware of:
1. No sex when the woman is menstruating.
2. No anal sex.
Otherwise:
Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe. [Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation,2:223]
I assume you would want to know about oral sex as well. i'll leave that for someone else or myself in another post. Regarding looking at the private part of one's spouse, i'll see what i can find as this has to be answered by a scholar.
I would like to add the following:
A general instruction given by the Prophet (pbuh) regarding marriage is as follows:
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Abdullah: We were with the Prophet while we were young and had no wealth whatever. So Allah's Apostle said, "O young people! Whoever among you can marry, should marry, because it helps him lower his gaze and guard his modesty (i.e. his private parts from committing illegal sexual intercourse etc.), and whoever is not able to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power." [Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith #4, Sahih Bukhari]

So, before getting married, no sex whatsoever. The remedy is to lower one's gaze and not stare at women and fast.
and Allah knows best.

[thipps]

H| ame,

Before getting to some of the other issues, an important note on sex and menstruation:
A husband and wife may enjoy each other, while in menstruation, if they avoid the actual intercourse. Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is reported to have said, which reads as follows: “You may do anything [with each other as a husband and wife, while in menstruation] except of actual intercourse” [Book 3 (Menstruation), Hadith 592, Sahih Muslim]

As far as oral sex is concerned, the short answer is that it’s allowed but with certain precautions and conditions. Details are at:
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=31729

Regarding looking at the private parts of the spouse, Sheikh Munajjid says that there is nothing wrong with this and he also explains the ‘detesting’ that you are referring to as coming from a fabricated hadith. So, it is not true. I am giving the details below for Muslims and non-Muslims both if anyone is interested:

It is permissible for a woman to see all of her husband’s body and for a man to see all of his wife’s body, with no need to go into details, because Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those who guard their chastity (i.e., private parts, from illegal sexual acts), except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, - for then, they are free from blame; but whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors.” [Qur’an, 23:5-7]

[Fataawa al-Mar’ah by Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 121]

Al-Bukhaari reported in his Saheeh (no. 250) that ‘Aa’ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and I used to bathe from one vessel.” (My note: This is reported in more detail in Saheeh Muslim)

Al-Haafiz said in al-Fath: “Al-Daawoodi interpreted this to mean that it is permissible for a man to look at his wife’s ‘awrah and vice-versa. This is supported by the report narrated by Ibn Hibbaan via Sulaymaan ibn Moosa, who was asked about a man looking at his wife’s private parts. He said: ‘I asked ‘Aa’ishah, and she referred to this hadeeth.’ This is evidence in this matter. And Allah knows best.”

I (Sheikh Munajjid) say:

as for the words that some people attribute to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), that it is Makrooh (disliked) for a man to look at his wife’s private parts, this is not authentic. This includes the reports narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Abu Hurayrah according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “When any one of you has intercourse with his wife, let him not look at her private parts, because this causes blindness, and let him not speak, because this causes muteness.” Ibn al-Jawzi said: “(This is) mawdoo’ (fabricated).” [See al-Mawdoo’aat by Ibn al-Jawzi, 2/271-272]
--------------------------------------------
Hope this helps.
And Allah knows best.

[ame]

Thank you!!!!!

So what is your position refering to drugs, or gay people?? obviously it is not allow but how do muslims act or what do you do about that???

[Al-Waleed]

Drugs = Strictly Prohibited.
Having Sex with a man/Being with a man = Strictly Prohibited. Being gay is a test from Allah, just like being poor or disabled. Will you resist touching a man all your life out of love for Allah or do it saying something like ''This is who I am''?

[ame]

Originally Posted by Al-Waleed

Drugs = Strictly Prohibited.
Having Sex with a man/Being with a man = Strictly Prohibited. Being gay is a test from Allah, just like being poor or disabled. Will you resist touching a man all your life out of love for Allah or do it saying something like ''This is who I am''?

I'm sorry but I really tried to understand this and I still don't get it... can you explain it to me please?

[thipps]

Originally Posted by ame

Thank you!!!!!

So what is your position refering to drugs, or gay people?? obviously it is not allow but how do muslims act or what do you do about that???

h| ame,
i will detail in this post only about drugs. You said that you know that it is prohibited. So, lets move on to what is the punishment for drug-use and what can be done.
Drugs come under the label of Khamr since the Prophet Mohammad(peace and blessings be upon him) said:"Every intoxicant is Khamr, and every Khamr is haram." [Book of Drinks, Hadith 4966, sahih Muslim]
And Umar(may Allah be pleased with him) declared from the pulpit of the Prophet(peace and blessings be upon him) that "Khamr is that which befogs the mind." [Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 143, sahih Bukhari]
Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi states the following:
Drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, opium, and the like are definitely included in the prohibited category of khamr. It is well known that the use of such drugs affects the sensory perceptions, making what is near seem distant and what is distant seem near; that their use produces illusions and hallucinations, so that the real seems to disappear and what is imaginary appears to be real; and that taking drugs in general impairs the faculty of reasoning and decision-making. Such drugs are taken as a means of escape from the inner reality of one's feelings and the outer realities of life and religion into the realm of fantasy and imagination.
Added to this psychological fact are the physical effects: bodily lassitude, dullness of the nerves, and decline in overall health. The moral consequences, moral insensitivity, weakening of the will power, and neglect of responsibilities are also well known. Eventually, drug addiction weakens a person and makes him a diseased member of society. Furthermore, drug addiction may result in the destruction of the family or even drive one to a life of crime. Since obtaining drugs involves a great outlay of money, drug addiction may take its toll on the family budget and even it may tempt the drug addict to resort to illegal means to pay for drugs.
Muslim jurists are unanimous on the prohibition of those drugs which were found during their respective times and places. Foremost among them was Sheikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah, who said: “This solid grass (hashish) is haram, whether or not it produces intoxication. Sinful people smoke it because they imagine it producing rapture and delight, an effect similar to drunkenness. While wine makes the one who drinks it active and quarrelsome, hashish produces dullness and lethargy; furthermore, smoking it disturbs the mind and temperament, excites sexual desire, and leads to shameless promiscuity, and these are greater evils than those caused by drinking. This perverted habit has spread among the people after the coming of the Tartars. The hadd (prescribed punishment) for smoking hashish, whether a small or large amount of it, is the same as that for drinking wine, that is, eighty or forty lashes.
He explained the imposition of hadd for smoking hashish in the following manner: It is the rule of the Islamic Shari'ah that any prohibited thing which is desired by people, such as wine and illicit sexual relations, is to be punished by imposing hadd, while the violation of a prohibited thing which is not desired, such as (eating) the flesh of a dead animal, calls for Ta'zeer (disciplinary/discretionary punishment). Now hashish is something desired and craved for, and it is hard for the addict to renounce it. Accordingly, the application of the texts of the Qur'an and Sunnah to hashish is similar to that of wine. [Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah, vol. 4, p. 262 f. Also see his book, As-Siyasah Ash-Shar'iyyah]
Shiekh Munajjid explains the flogging itself as follows:
With regard to the punishment of the drinker in this world, the punishment is flogging, according to the consensus of the fuqaha’[jurists], because of the report narrated by Muslim (3281) from Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) flogged the one who had drunk wine with palm branches stripped of their leaves and with shoes.

I would like to add to this. It is important to understand that the punishment given acts as an atonement for his/her sin[Book 17, Hadith #4235 & 4207, Sahih Muslim]. The fact that there is such a punishment, acts as a deterent as well to keep people away from this abomination. On a personal level, one should advise the concerned person to stop taking drugs ofcourse and if the user can be cured medically, then ofcourse that should be done as well.

There are some more details that i have not posted as I would like to research the finer points some more but i believe this is enough for now. Still researching some points on the punishment of homosexuality and, inshallah, will post the necessary material when i find it OR if someone else does, that would be great.
Hope this material helps.
And Allah knows best.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by ame

Thank you!!!!!

So what is your position refering to drugs, or gay people?? obviously it is not allow but how do muslims act or what do you do about that???

h| ame,
You have asked about gay people but im assuming that you wish to know about homosexual men and women both. There are two paths here: Repentance or Punishment.
Repentance:
If the person who does this evil deed, or any other action which is subject to a hadd punishment, repents, gives up that sin, seeks forgiveness, regrets what he has done and intends never to go back to it – Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about that, and he answered:
If he truely repents to Allah, Allah will accept his repentance, and he does not need to confess his sin to anyone so that the hadd [prescribed]punishment would be carried out on him. [Majmoo’ al-Fataawaa, part 34, p. 180]
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds; then verily, he repents towards Allaah with true repentance” [Quran 25:69-71].
Punishment:
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid explains as follows:
Undoubtedly the sin of homosexuality is one of the worst sins; indeed, it is one of the major sins that Allaah has forbidden. Allaah destroyed the people of Prophet Loot (peace be upon him) with the most terrifying kinds of punishment because they persisted in their sin and made this evil action commonplace and acceptable among themselves.
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever you find doing the deed of the people of Loot, kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”
[Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1456; Abu Dawood, 4462; Ibn Maajah, 2561. This hadeeth was classed as Authentic by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 6589]
Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq judged in accordance with this, and he wrote instructions to this effect to Khaalid, after consulting with the Sahaabah [Companions]. ‘Ali was the strictest of them with regard to that. Ibn al-Qasaar and our shaykh said: the Sahaabah agreed that [the person who does homosexual acts] should be killed, but they differed as to how he should be killed. Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq said that he should be thrown down from a cliff. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said that a wall should be made to collapse on him. Ibn ‘Abbaas said, they should be killed by stoning. This shows that there was consensus among them that [the person who does homosexual acts] should be killed, but they differed as to how. He should be executed by the sword, according to the most correct view.
Lesbianism means a woman having sexual relations with another woman and is undoubtedly haraam [forbidden].As far as lesbianism is concerned, there is no hadd (prescribed punishment) for it, but it is subject to ta’zeer (unspecified punishment to be determined at the discretion of the judge). [al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, part 24, p. 253]
The judge punishes the one who does that with a punishment which will deter her and others from doing this haraam action.
It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (24/252):
The fuqaha’ [jurists] are agreed that there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism.
There is no hadd punishment for them because they did not have intercourse, rather it is likened to intimate relations that are less than intercourse, and they are to be subjected to a ta’zeer punishment.
Hope this answers your questions.
And Allah knows best.

[ame]

Thank you for the information!!!!

[Bellamente]

Originally Posted by Al-Waleed

Drugs = Strictly Prohibited.
Having Sex with a man/Being with a man = Strictly Prohibited. Being gay is a test from Allah, just like being poor or disabled. Will you resist touching a man all your life out of love for Allah or do it saying something like ''This is who I am''?

How is being disabled a test? If you are born with a disability then you have no other choice on how to live, right? Or am misreading this?
Also it goes along with being poor, sometimes two people can have jobs and still can't make ends meat.

[Amatullah]

Salam (Peace)

How is being disabled a test? If you are born with a disability then you have no other choice on how to live, right? Or am misreading this?

I think all humans are tried by God in whichever state or position He puts them in. Whether we pass or fail the trial depends on how we choose to cope with it. For instance when a man is poor, he is being tried based on his tolerance and patience but he is not the only one being tried. The rich man is also being tried based on whether he chooses to be charitable or indifferent to what he is aware of. Similarly being disabled is also a trial. The faithful recognize their position as a trial and don't lose faith in God.

However I'm not so sure being gay is a trial. I think being gay is failing the trial unless of course the person decides to change. Surely a gay chooses to be gay out of his own free-will. How is it possible for God to punish someone for being in a position that He Himself put him in?

Amatullah

[PluckyAli]

Originally Posted by Al-Waleed

Drugs = Strictly Prohibited.
Having Sex with a man/Being with a man = Strictly Prohibited. Being gay is a test from Allah, just like being poor or disabled. Will you resist touching a man all your life out of love for Allah or do it saying something like ''This is who I am''?

I don't know what are you talking?.Please learn islam.Being gay is not a test from God.Do u know who gays are?.Gays r just like normal persons with a corrupted left mind.No one can become gay or lesbian without being programmed that stuff.It's funny the scientist who said homosexual is in the genes/dna was himself a homosexual.

So islam doesnot believe in natural homosexuality.
"You are what you choose to be.".

[SC_Override]

Originally Posted by PluckyAli

I don't know what are you talking?.Please learn islam.Being gay is not a test from God.Do u know who gays are?.Gays r just like normal persons with a corrupted left mind.No one can become gay or lesbian without being programmed that stuff.It's funny the scientist who said homosexual is in the genes/dna was himself a homosexual.

So islam doesnot believe in natural homosexuality.
"You are what you choose to be.".

As-Salaam-Alaikum,



Firstly, calm down PluckyAli.



Secondly, I think you misunderstood what Al Waleed meant by his comment. When he says, “being gay is a test from Allah” I cannot find any fault in this statement. In fact, I would also agree with this statement because homosexuality is a sexual desire. Allah has given men/women a variety of sexual desires that they could experience in their lifetimes, i.e. some people have homosexual feelings, some have paedophile feelings, there are even some people who have sexual desires towards animals etc and then the key one is heterosexuality. Now Allah has specifically commanded men and women to engage in only heterosexual relationships, therefore, making all other forms of sexual activities Haraam (forbidden). So, those that engage in these sexual activities are engaging in sinful acts.



Furthermore, it is a fact that these sexual desires exist and cannot be ignored; it is pointless to engage in debate whether or not homosexuality is a natural desire or something that is developed socially etc, especially when there is no conclusive evidence to support it. The point is that these desires exist and exist to test mankind to see if we refrain from them. It is quite simple.



I personally am not interested in whether it is natural or not. Yes many will argue the point that if I am born that way then it must be ok for me to be that way, yes it is an argument, however, according to Islam, and to be a Muslim, in Islam it is clear that homosexuality is a Haraam sexual activity therefore, that person must refrain from it if they wish to be Muslim. If this is not to their suiting then they can remain is a state of Kufur (disbelief). It’s all quite simple in my opinion. People have a tendency to overcomplicate issues when they begin to talk about whether or not if it is natural, that is not the point, the point is that it is Haraam. I hope that is clear.



wa 'alaikum salaam

[PluckyAli]

"Firstly, calm down PluckyAli"
I am very calm down and relaxed.

First i want to clear the term natural.Natural means something which human beings have by birth.Present in or produced by nature.
natural=normal,reality.

"When he says, “being gay is a test from Allah” I cannot find any fault in this statement. In fact, I would also agree with this statement because homosexuality is a sexual desire."
The reason i disagree is that it's unnatural.If you agree then your going to admit it's natural.

"Allah has given men/women a variety of sexual desires that they could experience in their lifetimes, i.e. some people have homosexual feelings, some have paedophile feelings, there are even some people who have sexual desires towards animals etc and then the key one is heterosexuality."
Allah has not given homosexual feelings,or else why would God stop people from doing natural act.Why?.Paedophile feelings,or sexual desire towars animals are all illegal and unnatural.

"Now Allah has specifically commanded men and women to engage in only heterosexual relationships, therefore, making all other forms of sexual activities Haraam (forbidden). So, those that engage in these sexual activities are engaging in sinful acts. "
The problem is u misunderstood God message.Allah has specifically forbidden all homosexual relationsiip because they are unnatural,aritificial,abnormal.God obviously did not make human beings homosexual.Why don't God prevent heterosexual relationship?.The reason is God made ppl heterosexual by nature.God prevent alcohol,intoxicants because they are unhealthy and unnatural.
If we find some strong evidence that homo is natural then that would be the first evidence against quran.

[SC_Override]

@PluckeyAli


You are not trying to understand anything I am trying to say. I am afraid to say you are over complicating this issue. As I have said before the point is not whether it is natural or not. Allah has made it forbidden. Therefore, you must abide by that ruling. Full stop. I am not arguing whether homosexuality is natural or not. I am only recognising it as a sexual desire that some human beings feel this desire. Again I will say this only once, you are over complicating this issue. As a Muslim who cares whether it is natural or not. The point is that Allah has made it a forbidden act. Anyway, another example is that of pork. In Islam it is made haraam…yes or no? Of course yes, however, there is no explanation as to why? However, when non-Muslims ask questions like “why is pork Haraam in Islam” Muslims will always end up trying to provide evidence as to the negative effects of pork. The point is that we don’t need to go into a long winded explanation because simply when god has forbidden you from doing something, and without giving an explanation as to why then you accept it, after all god knows best!



I mean it is all quite simple actually, if you are able to rationalize the existence of god (swt) and believe in the oneness of god (swt) and that prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was his messenger. Then anything, god has forbidden us from doing should be accepted without question. Now many non-Muslims, especially atheists will find this hard to fathom, if so who cares. It is not your job to explain the unexplained but convey the message of god. It is completely pointless to engage in debate in things that are recognised as being haraam. When there are things that we are unsure about, for example, in the case of smoking, this was not something that was made haraam for the simple fact that it did not exist during the time of the prophet (pbuh). Therefore, we are able to engage in debate and talk about what are the positives and negatives of smoking, and from this we can then decide whether it is halal, muckroo, haraam. However, with homosexuality, pork these have been made clear by god that they are haraam, therefore, we stay away from these without question. There is no point to get emotional especially when both parties arguing the case of whether homosexuality is natural or not, can’t prove anything to support their assertions. However, what we do know is that it is forbidden for Muslims.