Sensual Snapshots

[Vajradhara]

Namate all,


interesting thread... to be sure.

there are a few things that i'd like to mention.. to sort of clear the waters, as it were.

at least from the Buddhist perspective, the term is not enlightenment.. it's nonesensical. the term is properly rendered Awakened. however, as Buddhism was first being introduced to the west, this was during the post-enlightenment period. and to present Buddhism as a more "rational" religion the english speakers choose the term "enlightenment" to represent the term Awakened. which, in my view, has lead to all sorts of confusions.

now, of course, the experience of awakeneing is something that can happen to any being at any point, provided the right causes and conditions have been established.

from my schools point of view... if we are here (as humans), we are still attached and not Awakened. pardon me if i don't feel that Maitreya has arisen yet, as i'm sure you all will

in the Vajrayana tradition, at least, the point of the praxis isn't to have isolated awakened experiences, rather, it's to maintain that awakened state throughout our moment to moment existence.. whilst we are working, talking and sleeping. in point of fact, if you cannot maintain this level of consciousness whilst asleep, in our tradition, that indicates that the practiconer has not Awakened in the Annutara Samyak Sambodhi sense.

Buddhists have views of the level of awakening that a particular being may have.. and they range from being a Stream Enterer (one that is convinced of the Buddhadharma and will continue on the path until Final, Complete Awakening) to that very state of Final, Complete Awakening.

in the eastern and especially the Buddhist views, this state is characterized by three primary attainments. the ability to magically appear in mulitple places at once, the ability to read the thoughts of sentient beings and the ability to teach the Dharma (which, according to Buddha Shakyamuni, is the real miracle).

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

Indeed, but how is this possible if we regard our state of mind as having reached it's climax?

So long as one suffers, one is not enlightened. And yes, this is experiential. I am not enlightened and I'm still suffering, so there we go.

Myth brings comfort to the suffering. Gnosis brings freedom from suffering.

Abogado del Diablo

[Zenda71]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

in the eastern and especially the Buddhist views, this state is characterized by three primary attainments. the ability to magically appear in mulitple places at once, the ability to read the thoughts of sentient beings and the ability to teach the Dharma (which, according to Buddha Shakyamuni, is the real miracle).

Reading minds. Now there is something that sounds absolutely horrific to me. More like a curse than a blessing.

Zenda

[pseudonymous]

Reading minds. Now there is something that sounds absolutely horrific to me. More like a curse than a blessing.

zenda, i know that was likely posted a bit tongue in cheek - although if not i can agree that it sounds scary. when i awoke i became much more aware of what other people were thinking. not specific word for word thoughts, but more of a general idea. i have explored this ability some, but for the most part have left it on the back burner in favor of other endeavors. i know in my experience my mind (or whatever the correct term would be) has a way of filtering out the mundane thoughts of others, and allowing me access to whatever is of interest to whatever i am doing - be it teaching, or just feeling a person out for any hidden agendas.

dcv-

[Zenda71]

Originally Posted by pseudonymous

Reading minds. Now there is something that sounds absolutely horrific to me. More like a curse than a blessing.

zenda, i know that was likely posted a bit tongue in cheek - although if not i can agree that it sounds scary. when i awoke i became much more aware of what other people were thinking. not specific word for word thoughts, but more of a general idea. i have explored this ability some, but for the most part have left it on the back burner in favor of other endeavors. i know in my experience my mind (or whatever the correct term would be) has a way of filtering out the mundane thoughts of others, and allowing me access to whatever is of interest to whatever i am doing - be it teaching, or just feeling a person out for any hidden agendas.

dcv-

Yes, dcv, I was being tongue in cheek but also a bit not. I would hope that this "power" would come with the ability to turn it on or off, otherwise, I can easily imagine being swept away in a sea of others' emotions and/or suffering. Clearly, a very advanced skill for a well-trained mind ... (perhaps one not as often joking as mine? )

With metta,
ZW

[pseudonymous]

zenda,

i can remember in the beginning going shopping and having a dozen mood changes. it was finding that invisible switch - seemed to be about focusing on an individual rather than being open to anyone that eventually helped me tune it out. i am renowned for not being able to remain serious for more than a few minutes at a time, so sense of humor doesn't seem to affect it much. everything is a punchline to me...

dcv-

[I, Brian]

Just caught the last few posts - got this down as the "empathic experience". When you've played around for a while you consciously know exactly when people are looking at you, and what their intentions are.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, though, I have problems assigning a real use for it. I can see real survival benefits - but, ultimately, can it be used to solve wider problems? Perhaps it is too much an issue of expectation, and undervaluing it.

I make a specific issue of describing the experience and how to use it - how to tune in better - in my aspiring writing. Maybe I should post something up one day before I go to the publishers.

[Zenda71]

I remember reading once that human beings are remarkably adept at reading emotions and other information by observing the very subtle changes in another's face, body language, and speech. Probably other things as well. Perhaps "waking up" involves both tuning in to another and being aware of such subtle cues and "information", while at the same time not allowing yourself to be tossed in every emotional direction at once ... ???



With metta,
Zenda

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


Zenda, actually, i was quite serious about it... not tongue in cheek at all. however... i wouldn't worry overly much about this aspect.. well.. at least until you are able to reach the 3rd and 4th Jhanas... after that... it probably wouldn't be much of a hinderance.

the ability to read other thoughts is no different than those that possess the Greek charm... and the ability to appear in multiple places is the same as the Persian spell... thus, the Buddha advised that these things are not to be considered as anything special since it was easy enough to dismiss them as effects of other traditions and practices.

the real miracle of the awakening process, from the Buddhist perspective, is the ability to correctly transmit the Buddhadharma.

[I, Brian]

I certainly agree, Zenda, that body language is extremely powerful, under-rated, and probably works with the empathic process. However, the empathic process canoperate without visual cues. I guess it's almost like "music" - people emit their own "music" according to how they are feeling. When someone looks at you - whether seen or unseen - it is like they turn their speakers towards you so the them and direction of the "music" can become quite distinguishable. Aggression and attraction, general extremes of emotion, are very easy to pick up. You can easily test this walking down the street - "feel" for the music from different sources being turned towards you. And you know it's working, because if you suddenly turn to the direction you felt the "music" from, the person looking at you will quickly glance aside. Maybe even blush, too.

[pseudonymous]

i think it has a lot to do with vibration. i say this because as brian points out, you don't have to be in the same physical location to be able to "read" someone. i know that everyone leaves a "signature" on everything they touch or create, so that often if i am reading a post on a forum i will pick up subtle "motives" and/or emotional "baggage" in their writings. this is why for me i prefer to read a person's own words, because there is a much stronger signature left than if it is cut & Pasted and/or memorized. the ability or "gift" (if you find use for it) has been very helpful for me in my teaching work as well as my healing work, as well as figuring out what language works in communicating. in general though, it is a good idea to know who the emotional vampires are in your environment so you don't find yourself a host to them. sometimes they are very adept at draining others in less than obvious ways. just my experience using this ability...


dcv-

[Zenda71]

Sorry, Vajra. I didn't mean to belittle what you said. I was just comparing what I'd read to the discussion of reading minds. And joking a bit as is my way ...

My apologies if I've offended anyone.


With metta,
Zenda

[Vajradhara]

no worries Zenda


i'm not easily offended... and questioning this stuff would never be the method to offend me, at least

[Zenda71]

Originally Posted by pseudonymous

... emotional vampires ...

I like this.

Vajra, I am relieved. BTW, are you from Australia?

With metta,
Zenda

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Venda,


just because i talk like the Crocodile Hunter doesn't mean i'm an Aussie

i'm a child of the world, so to speak my blood line is a mixture of various races and creeds... however, i consider myself, at least in terms of nationality, to be an American. how long that is the case remains to be seen

i would generally define myself as a Buddhist before my nationality.. though that is not always the case for folks. it's been my experience that nationalism is a close second for causing conflict and the more chances i have to minimize that in my life, i'm going to take.

wow... talk about veering way off topic! LOL...