Sea of Reeds vs. Red Sea

[wil]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

but i guess the whole of the children of israel really became "ivrim" at the crossing of the "reed sea" or whatever you want to call it. where it is isn't all that important, if you ask me.

I agree with the where it is not that important....but my question is really in relation to the translation...ie does the original hebrew as you know it state Red Sea, or was that added or a mistranslation?

[bananabrain]

no, the original hebrew says, as the response above says, "YaM SUPh", suph meaning "reed". i don't know how the original mistake came about but given that the red sea is in the same area maybe it was an obvious mistake to make during the orthographic cataclysms of the middle ages. or maybe the red sea's even a misnomer and it should really be called the reed sea, although i've never seen anything reedy in that area and it seems to me that the gulf of suez is a bit more likely considering it is a delta and as such is a bit more marshy.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

the word "hebrew" is from abraham's title "Ha-'IBhRI" which means, alternatively "the crosser" or, as some would have it "the contrarian" - or even "the transgressor". that title goes back to his departure from ur to haran, where he "crossed the river", as it says of his family the Torah "your ancestors lived beyond the river" (meaning the euphrates). but i guess the whole of the children of israel really became "ivrim" at the crossing of the "reed sea" or whatever you want to call it. where it is isn't all that important, if you ask me.

b'shalom

bananabrain

hmmmm .... most interesting bb, in the south pacific on one of the islands the traditional title for one of the high chiefs is "didel" which means "to bridge" .... or "to cross" .... if one crosses over into the promise land (metaphorically) then this interpretation would be very insightful .... in Greek mythology, to "cross over the River Styx" is to be able to overcome the power human emotions that prevent us from reaching a more spiritual level of being (metaphorically the river is in a rage with storms and even fire and one must calm the three headed beast on the other side which actually is very easy because it only takes honey and poppyseed cake .... also metaphors) .... but back to "crossing" .... crossing over is a strong metaphor for moving up and beyond the earth emotions to a more spiritual and wonderous space .... and as to "reeds" the metaphor is in the reed boat itself (don't know about a Sea of Reeds except that is where one would gather reeds for the boat) .... reed boats were used to cross the ancient sea and traditionally (in the tradition of the South Pacific) it takes 12 bundles of reeds to carry the weight of one man, and each boat carries 12 men .... thus, 12 X 12 or 144 relating to the number of 144,000..... would be interesting to know the kaballist interpretation of both the word for "reed" and the number "144,000" .... just a few random thoughts to share .... me ke aloha pumehana, poh