scriptural basis for christian objection to homosexuality

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I was immoral I slept with people of the same sex.

Wow, really!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Im NOT intolerant of the person. I am intolerant of the sin. Thank you for helping me see that I need to clarify that.

It's alright FS. Most people understand quite clearly what you are expressing.

Those that don't, probably won't, ever.

Trying to defend against such, is an exercise in futility.

v/r

Joshua

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It's alright FS. Most people understand quite clearly what you are expressing.

Those that don't, probably won't, ever.

Trying to defend against such, is an exercise in futility.

v/r

Joshua

So , are you saying that homosexuality, which is very well understood by everyone actually working in the human psychological and sexual sciences that homosexuality is a naturally-occuring and basically unalterable orientation, is a sin and immoral, as FAITHFUL SERVANT is saying.

And if you say yes, because your religion says so, then defending against you and your likes, would be an exercise in futility.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by niranjan

So , are you saying that homosexuality, which is very well understood by everyone actually working in the human psychological and sexual sciences that homosexuality is a naturally-occuring and basically unalterable orientation, is a sin and immoral, as FAITHFUL SERVANT is saying.

And if you say yes, because your religion says so, then defending against you and your likes, would be an exercise in futility.

Actually, if you want a common sense explanation, I have one of them too. See, the purpose of sex in nature is to propogate the species. Hence a zygote must meet with an egg, inorder for said species to continue. The "pleasure" the species might derive is nature's way to insure that life will continue. However, for same sex species to engage in sexual activities with each other is as far as nature is concerned, a waste of energy, and the death of a pair of genomes' branches in the tree of life. In short, it detracts from the diversity of the species, and could eventually lead to said species' extinction.

That is my take. Thanks for asking.

v/r

Joshua

edit: oh, and God said it's an abomination (dismal failure). Seems to me God and science/nature are saying the same thing. It doesn't work for the purpose it was intended for.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually, if you want a common sense explanation, I have one of them too. See, the purpose of sex in nature is to propogate the species. Hence a zygote must meet with an egg, inorder for said species to continue. The "pleasure" the species might derive is nature's way to insure that life will continue. However, for same sex species to engage in sexual activities with each other is as far as nature is concerned, a waste of energy, and the death of a pair of genomes' branches in the tree of life. In short, it detracts from the diversity of the species, and could eventually lead to said species' extinction.

That is my take. Thanks for asking.

v/r

Joshua

edit: oh, and God said it's an abomination (dismal failure). Seems to me God and science/nature are saying the same thing. It doesn't work for the purpose it was intended for.

And how come God made the poor homosexuals this way , which is embedded in their nature, instead of making them purely heterosexual. It is not enough to preach, He should have made them biologically perfect as you put it.

I think God is to blame for this. Speak of double standards.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by niranjan

And how come God made the poor homosexuals this way , which is embedded in their nature, instead of making them purely heterosexual. It is not enough to preach, He should have made them biologically perfect as you put it.

I think God is to blame for this. Speak of double standards.

God made the rutting instinct in all animals. Man, He made sure, knows better than to arbitrarily plug anything that moves. And for those who ain't quick enough to ken that, He gave us some rules.

Animals are animals. They are without sin (they never rebelled against God). Man knows right from wrong. He knows what works and what doesn't. I see no double standard from God. From man however...

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

God made the rutting instinct in all animals. Man, He made sure, knows better than to arbitrarily plug anything that moves.

Sorry about that pal, but I think God made a manufacturing mistake. It was once thought that all men and women were heterosexual by nature, and that it was only their wilful, evil nature that caused them to take up homosexual practices. But now , as I stated before in my previous post, it has been determined to be a natural-occuring and unalterable orientation by science.

He himself created homosexuals, and now He is preaching that homosexuals are bad news. Where is the justice in this !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by niranjan

Sorry about that pal, but I think God made a manufacturing mistake. It was once thought that all men and women were heterosexual by nature, and that it was only their wilful, evil nature that caused them to take up homosexual practices. But now , as I stated before in my previous post, it has been determined to be a natural-occuring and unalterable orientation by science.

He himself created homosexuals, and now He is preaching that homosexuals are bad news. Where is the justice in this !!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no conclusive proof that humans are made specifically homosexual. There are errors in DNA that occur, however that isn't God's fault. Most of the faults of DNA can be attributed to exterior anomolies (mostly as of late), caused by....oh my....man.

Biblically speaking, man's perfection ended with his expulsion from the garden. It was no surprise, that bad things would happen. God told us they would. Think about it. What need man have for God, if he was still perfect? There would be no reason to turn back to God...unless man had need to lean on God.

Smart God, I think.

v/r

Joshua

[wil]

The literalists and fundamentalists of the past, pointing to scripture, old and new testament and screaming G-d and Jesus say it is ok was the methods used against reasonable people who opposed slavery for many hundreds of years.

It is now clear today that reasonable people grow and learn and now look back upon those centuries of slavery as a disgrace and cannot believe that anyone used scripture to uphold the owning of humans as property.

Many other archaic notions found in the bible, stoning of adulterers and such have gone by the wayside for non-barbaric peoples.

What is not clear is when this same thing will happen to our view of homosexuals....but it is clear it will happen. And some day our great great great grandchildrend will read about the homophobia and discussions like this and won't be able to believe how backward a people we were.

Exactly like we perceive that slavery in was an abomination...and not biblicly ordained...well some of us anyway.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

The literalists and fundamentalists of the past, pointing to scripture, old and new testament and screaming G-d and Jesus say it is ok was the methods used against reasonable people who opposed slavery for many hundreds of years.

It is now clear today that reasonable people grow and learn and now look back upon those centuries of slavery as a disgrace and cannot believe that anyone used scripture to uphold the owning of humans as property.

Many other archaic notions found in the bible, stoning of adulterers and such have gone by the wayside for non-barbaric peoples.

What is not clear is when this same thing will happen to our view of homosexuals....but it is clear it will happen. And some day our great great great grandchildrend will read about the homophobia and discussions like this and won't be able to believe how backward a people we were.

Exactly like we perceive that slavery in was an abomination...and not biblicly ordained...well some of us anyway.

I doubt it wil. Unless religion (rules) disappear all together. Then anarchy is in effect, and nothing lasts long in anarchy. Sooner or later someone with strength makes up rules the rest will comply with.

However, the vision you see is an end to life as we know it. So if perchance one of us were to be held in stasis for 1000 years, what we would see when we came out would be so alien (even from your vision), we wouldn't know what to do, or think.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There is no conclusive proof that humans are made specifically homosexual.

Well, I am a heterosexual, and I am not sexually attracted to males, only females, but I have homosexual friends , who are very honest and innocent, and who seem to be having innocent lust on seeing goodlooking men. It comes naturally to them and they can't sadly prevent it. So I know from this that humans can be specifically homosexual. And research has substantiated this by pointing out crucial differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals as well.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There are errors in DNA that occur, however that isn't God's fault.

And how is this not God's fault. He is the one who makes us all, right. So he is responsible for making us perfect at least physically.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Most of the faults of DNA can be attributed to exterior anomolies (mostly as of late), caused by....oh my....man..

Well,I know for a fact that there were homosexuals since early history.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Biblically speaking, man's perfection ended with his expulsion from the garden. It was no surprise, that bad things would happen. God told us they would.
..

I can understand imperfection in character, but what is the need for God to make imperfection physically .

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Think about it. What need man have for God, if he was still perfect? ..

Yeah I guess God was scared that if he made us perfect , we might dump Him in some old age home. So he want to make us dependent on Him.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There would be no reason to turn back to God...unless man had need to lean on God.

Smart God, I think.

Cunning and manipulative, if you ask me.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I doubt it wil. Unless religion (rules) disappear all together. Then anarchy is in effect, and nothing lasts long in anarchy. Sooner or later someone with strength makes up rules the rest will comply with.

However, the vision you see is an end to life as we know it. So if perchance one of us were to be held in stasis for 1000 years, what we would see when we came out would be so alien (even from your vision), we wouldn't know what to do, or think.

these exact same quotes would have been said in 1700-1860 America about slavery....word for word.

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by niranjan

So , are you saying that homosexuality, which is very well understood by everyone actually working in the human psychological and sexual sciences that homosexuality is a naturally-occuring and basically unalterable orientation, is a sin and immoral, as FAITHFUL SERVANT is saying.

But now , as I stated before in my previous post, it has been determined to be a natural-occuring and unalterable orientation by science.

Funny, that is not at all what the scientists involved with the genome mapping project have said publically, and I have that information posted here at this site.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...to-6109-3.html

beginning at post 43

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...juan-6400.html


http://www.comparative-religion.com/...riage-835.html


REAL proof, not opinion.

Just because G-d gave us noses and anal orifices, doesn't mean we are naturally inclined to sniff each other's butts.

For dogs on the other hand...

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Funny, that is not at all what the scientists involved with the genome mapping project have said publically, and I have that information posted here at this site.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...to-6109-3.html

beginning at post 43

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...juan-6400.html


http://www.comparative-religion.com/...riage-835.html


REAL proof, not opinion.

Just because G-d gave us noses and anal orifices, doesn't mean we are naturally inclined to sniff each other's butts.

For dogs on the other hand...

So are you saying that homosexuals should not be having sexual desires with respect to other males , even though they are helpless in this regard.

And are you saying that they are dogs!


And you are accusing me of being 'prejudiced', and you keep stating in almost every post of yours , how "progressive " you are !!!!!!!!!!!!

[paul]

Originally Posted by niranjan

So are you saying that homosexuals should not be having sexual desires with respect to other males , even though they are helpless in this regard.

And are you saying that they are dogs!


And you are accusing me of being prejudiced!!!!!!!!!!!!

It isn't juantoo3 who is liking homosexuals to dogs and other animals, i believe this is the argument being used to describe homosexuality as natural.

It may be he's more pointing out, although we have animals passions, we don't have to act on them.
There are peodophiles, and many with all kinds of passions, murder, whatever, if we just say it's an animal passion then we have an excuse for any evil.

I don't know how anyone can say it's not unatural to human nature, it's most certainly unatural to how i understand human nature, not just as a learnt teaching from any book or anyone, but something my whole being, my human nature tells me instinctively.

They have these desires, and people do have other unatural desires which most people would not have a problem as seeing as unatural, but usually now because of the hurt it may cause another.
For now incest is starting to be introduced with the same reasoning as homosexuality.
I hear even with peodophilier and beastiality, that it is only the harm that it causes another that makes it evil.
But what about the unatural desire.
Surely there's an evil in having these unatural desires even if no crime is commited.
There's something wrong there. which some homosexuals examining themselves actually admit, and in cases it is beleived they have developed such desires from abuse they have suffered and i've even heared from lack of love from a father.

There are many times in life it may seem we are helpless to our desires and passions, but there is healing, there is growth to overcome evils in ourselves.