scriptural basis for christian objection to homosexuality

[Quahom1]

According to Christ there is no sin greater than any other save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Homosexuality falls under the same sin category as fornication.

I remember a neighbor of ours catching his daughter and her boyfriend in the hayloft. Yep, he had a shot gun, and yep he made it clear that this "sin" was going to be turned around and made decent by a marriage. (they've been married 25 years)...

Can't do the same thing with same sex relations (of the intimate kind). There is something ingrained in the majority of humans, against such relations (over 90 %). It's not a learned revulsion, but rather instinctive.

My father inlaw, accidently walked in on my wife and me, during and intimate moment. When we came down to the kitchen for breakfast, he and his wife had grins they could barely keep hidden.

Same father inlaw walked in on his son and lover (male), even though he knew they were what they were, it still boiled him over to actually see it. Later, there were no grins or smiles. Only strained silence.

Yet he balled like a baby when they both died years later.

It isn't the person, it is the actions, that are objected to.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Homosexuals can't be compelled by the same societal carrots and sticks as hheterosexuals. In that sense they are always potentially dangerous to the status quo.

Personally, of all the sins that undermine the common good, homosexuality is way down on my list of priorities. Greed, for example, is a much bigger problem. Of course we take greed for granted...and lying. I don't hear much clamor for a constitutional ammendment protecting society from greed. Of course capitalism is all about greed, and capitalism is our real religion.

Chris

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

According to Christ there is no sin greater than any other save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Homosexuality falls under the same sin category as fornication.

I remember a neighbor of ours catching his daughter and her boyfriend in the hayloft. Yep, he had a shot gun, and yep he made it clear that this "sin" was going to be turned around and made decent by a marriage. (they've been married 25 years)...

Can't do the same thing with same sex relations (of the intimate kind). There is something ingrained in the majority of humans, against such relations (over 90 %). It's not a learned revulsion, but rather instinctive.

My father inlaw, accidently walked in on my wife and me, during and intimate moment. When we came down to the kitchen for breakfast, he and his wife had grins they could barely keep hidden.

Same father inlaw walked in on his son and lover (male), even though he knew they were what they were, it still boiled him over to actually see it. Later, there were no grins or smiles. Only strained silence.

This is absurd, using a personal anecdote as some kind of revelation about the nature of human beings is ridiculous. So is an assertion that over 90% of people are instinctively revulsed by homosexuality.
What about those societies where homosexuality was commonly practiced? What happened to their instinctive revulsion?

[China Cat Sunflower]

Uh, we're not revulsed by homosexuality per se, we're freaked out by male homosexuality. Lesbians are cool. Well...at least those fake porno lesbians. Not real man-hatin' lesbians- they're a pain in the ass because they won't buy into the politics of pretty thing. Can't convince them they need to be pretty. How Goddamn subversive! Men, on the other hand...well, if they're not straight they probably won't buy the whole macho, work yourself to death, fight for a hollow cause thing.

Chris

[flowperson]

Amen Brother Chris !

Of course, while this is true, the thread is addressing the scriptural
bases regarding the phenomenon. While a greedy nature may encouraqe all sorts of overindulgences, perhaps even overt homosexual behaviors, that doesn't necessarily automatically translate into capitalism as being "not good" some how.

As a whole, scripture, especially in the OT, warns humanity away from repetitive behaviors that can harm us if we get carried away with them. Jesus is a bit more subtle in the NT, in that He often conceals His admonishments and warnings in more abstract language and images. Both kinds of sexual behaviors have the potential to put us in a bad place from time to time if we happen to overindulge.

Besides, capitalism helps private individuals to own reasonably priced consumer goods, such as hot tubs, where groups of friends have parties once in a while. But I guess that working for money to buy hot tubs could also be considered a repetitive behavior...hmmmm ?


flow....

[China Cat Sunflower]

Gotta disagree with you a little bit, Cav. I thought Josh's annecdote was a pretty good example of the mainstream attitude.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey, I'm into me and mine and my stuff...don't get me worng! If the Gays start threatening that I'll reach for my gun. Uh, my nail gun I guess since I don't have a gun...gun.

Chris

[wil]

And I agree on the 90% distaste being wrong...I'd say in the US where they are now saying there is 11% of the population engaging in homosexual (gay, lesbian, bisexual) activity...I'd say another 10-20% are openly accepting of this activity in their friends, co-workers, relatives, and associates.

I'd say the number of those that experience utter revulsion is under 60%...but the problem factor there is that many of those, as experienced by the headlines and personal experience are actually not out of the closet yet ie many homophobes have homosexual tendencies.

Back to your regular programming about which chapters and verses we choose to use to condemn others.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well, a lot of people are accepting of homosexuality in general, but sit a sample group down, wire'em up, and have them watch a gay male porno movie. I mean, I'm very liberal, and I don't give a damn what consenting adults do, but I'd find that a tad revolting at least.

Chris

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Gotta disagree with you a little bit, Cav. I thought Josh's annecdote was a pretty good example of the mainstream attitude.

Chris

Sure, I would agree that it's a good example of mainstream attitudes. It seems though, that Q is using this story to try and back his claim that humankind has a instinctive repulsion to homosexuality.
Though I guess that the people repulsed by homosexuality are in the majority, I object to his claims that figure is over 90%.
I also object to his claim that this repulsion is instinctive and not acquired.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Well, a lot of people are accepting of homosexuality in general, but sit a sample group down, wire'em up, and have them watch a gay male porno movie. I mean, I'm very liberal, and I don't give a damn what consenting adults do, but I'd find that a tad revolting at least.

Chris

Ok, now try and picture a really ugly woman, how would you feel watching her in a hard-core porno?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

And I agree on the 90% distaste being wrong...I'd say in the US where they are now saying there is 11% of the population engaging in homosexual (gay, lesbian, bisexual) activity...I'd say another 10-20% are openly accepting of this activity in their friends, co-workers, relatives, and associates.

I'd say the number of those that experience utter revulsion is under 60%...but the problem factor there is that many of those, as experienced by the headlines and personal experience are actually not out of the closet yet ie many homophobes have homosexual tendencies.

Back to your regular programming about which chapters and verses we choose to use to condemn others.

Well, see, that is just the thing. Our society is becoming more tolerant of this behavior. People who have hid in their closets for decades are coming out in droves. Why? Because they feel less threatened by society that their behavior is taboo.

Even Clinton's policy of the military's "Don't ask, Don't tell" was recently critiqued by the same military official who came up with the policy in the first place, stating that he changed his mind about gays being destructive to the moral of the troops.

And that was my point about Sodom and Gomorrah. It wasn't homosexuality, per se, that was the ultimate cause for their destruction, it was the general rebellious unrighteousness, including homosexual behavior, toward God that triggered the judgement upon them. God couldn't find even 10 righteous people among them, save Lot and his family.

[Prober]

1 Corinthians 6

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, noreffeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by wil

We didn't think Rock Hudson was either...

No idea who Rock Hudson is lol, but anyway...

We? Humans? The bible is supposed to be the word of god... I am sure this awesome diety could determin if a person was gay or not.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cavalier

This is absurd, using a personal anecdote as some kind of revelation about the nature of human beings is ridiculous. So is an assertion that over 90% of people are instinctively revulsed by homosexuality.
What about those societies where homosexuality was commonly practiced? What happened to their instinctive revulsion?

Nothing absurd about reality...heteros do not like homosexual behavior. That is the way things are. However no one has a problem until it is brought up by the ones coming out of the closet. Then it is in one's face.

Keep the damn sexual preference to self! Telling the whole world about it and demanding recognition for it...now that is absurd! It's plain rude. if nothing else. And don't attempt to force feed kids, people, the church into accepting something that they don't want.

Let me put it another way. Someone says "I'm an alcoholic". Then folk nod their heads in understanding and do what they can to avoid putting the temptation of drinking in front of the confessor. But if the professed alcoholic starts drinking, then people get irritated with the behavior of the individual. It's self destructive and damaging to those around the person.

Homosexual behavior and agenda may not be considered destructive to those engaged in it, but it is a societal disruptor. It can tear family's apart and churches too.

The audacity that gay rights advocates have demanding that 90% of society agree with and give in to maybe 10% of the population because of their personal preferences is absurd. That is ludicrous!

And yes, I put spot lighted (public) homosexual behavior in the same group as adultery, binge drinking, divorce and doing drugs. They all tear at the fabric of society.

v/r

Joshua