Scientology

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Bruce how is it wrong? They are classed as a religion and they were founded in like what the 70's? Hence... A modern day religion... And Major modern day religion because of their numbers...

Art, could you explain to me Dawuds post? Why not Sikhism?

Hello Alex..

First let me reiterate that this Forum is to discuss Baha'i Faith. We're not here to discuss Scientology or Sikhism.. that's why there are forums here for that purpose.

Baha'i Faith is a revealed religion and we believe is more along the lines of previously revealed religions such as Islam, Christiainity and Judaism and Zoroastrianism.. while it is "modern" religion and only been around since 1844 it is also in the trradition could you say of the revealed religions noted.

Our Writings don't really mention Sikhism that began in India (Punjab) around say sixteenth century... Yes there are admirable traits in Sikhism and you won't find any pamphlets or treateses attacking it either. A few Sikhs that I know of became Baha'is. But since we have nothing about it per se in the Writings we relate to it as other religions in a friendly manner and can cooperate with them on Inter-faith forums and such.

I've already mentioned Scientology above...

Some Baha'is might be interested in it and if there are some aspects that they may find helpful for themselves it's within their rights to explore that I suppose to utilize them just as some Baha'is may practise a variety of meditation techniques...but no Baha'i could formally say be a member of Scietology as a Church or religion... They'd have to choose what they wanted to be a Baha'i or a Scientologist.

I hope that's helpful...

- Art

[Alex P]

Thanks Art,

I wasn't meaning to focus on their religions, I was curious to why you say you don't accept any of their faiths... Wanted to see it from the baha'i view as to why it wasn't possible ya see? Not simply... "we don't do that." I wanted to know why sorry for any confusion thanks for the post again.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Thanks Art,

I wasn't meaning to focus on their religions, I was curious to why you say you don't accept any of their faiths... Wanted to see it from the baha'i view as to why it wasn't possible ya see? Not simply... "we don't do that." I wanted to know why sorry for any confusion thanks for the post again.

Baha'is are free to see if there is anything of value in say Dienetics.. if they can use any of it's principles that's alright..but we wouldn't go so far as to formally be say a Scientologist and embark on the series of lessons or so that that involves.

We can admire some of the aspects of Sikhism as well and be on friendly and cooperative terms with them..but we wouldn't accept all the aspects of Sikhism and adopt their goals as our own.

Baha'is are working to bring peace to the planet by reducing prejudice and racism and so our goals and objectives and strategies may differ from other groups.. At the same we should accept that they all have some good qualities to offer.

- Art

[Alex P]

Art,

my thanks as usual for sharing your views.

[gp1628]

Originally Posted by arthra

Baha'is are free to see if there is anything of value in say Dienetics.. if they can use any of it's principles that's alright..but we wouldn't go so far as to formally be say a Scientologist and embark on the series of lessons or so that that involves.

We can admire some of the aspects of Sikhism as well and be on friendly and cooperative terms with them..but we wouldn't accept all the aspects of Sikhism and adopt their goals as our own.

Baha'is are working to bring peace to the planet by reducing prejudice and racism and so our goals and objectives and strategies may differ from other groups.. At the same we should accept that they all have some good qualities to offer.

- Art

That sounds workable. Becoming a scientologist is free, attending services is free. The self-help courses are separate and are at a flat rates. Rather like services by many other churches (marriage, funerals, conversions, counseling, etc).

Altho people tend to treat anyone taking courses as a "scientolgist" (and so does scientology when counting their "numbers") most people keep their own faith and quit after a couple of courses like I did. Something like 62% according to anti-scientology sites. The only people who take the heavy courses are those who want to be full-time scientologists. Basically priest-level. Those are expensive though still cheaper than many other faiths. Those people do tend to change things like their census answers to say Scientology.

So Im happy that Baha'i allows the courses while remaining Baha'i. It fits with my understanding and appreciation of the Baha'i faith.

[Alex P]

Courses are free to staff memebers/officers.

GP! Sent you a private message Appreciate it if you would check it out

[Dawud]

In Egypt on ID cards you can name one of three religions, Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. If you are a Baha'i, a Sikh, a Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, etc., you are without an ID...

My point is that the Baha'i Faith is an independent world religion, not a denomination of something else. That's why we can't pick another one, we can't say we're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, but we do believe they are divinely revealed religions. The Baha'i Faith is as independent of Islam as Christianity is independent of Judaism. To say I'm a Sikh is like a Catholic saying he's Jewish.

Interesting historical point.... the founder of Sikhism didn't say he was a prophet. He said he was a guru. At least that's what I remember reading somewhere. If anyone has heard otherwise, tell me.

[arthra]

gp 1628,

If you have any questions about Baha'i Faith on this Forum do feel free to ask...

- Art

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Originally Posted by Alex P

Bruce how is [Scientology] wrong? They are classed as a religion, and they were founded in like what the 70's?

I didn't say it wasn't a religion: I said our scriptures reject it, which is indeed the case!

Peace,

Bruce

[Dawud]

We recognize nine religions as revealed religions... and if I remember correctly, they are:

1. Hinduism (Krishna)
2. Buddhism (Buddha)
3. Sabaeanism
4. Judaism (Abraham, Moses, and the minor prophets)
5. Zoroastrianism (Zoroaster)
6. Christianity (Jesus Christ)
7. Islam (Muhammad)
8. Babi Faith (The Bab)
9. Baha'i Faith (Baha'u'llah)

They're not necessarily listed in historical order... Judaism is older than Buddhism.

[BruceDLimber]

Originally Posted by Dawud

We recognize nine religions as revealed religions... and if I remember correctly, they are:

1. Hinduism (Krishna)
2. Buddhism (Buddha)
3. Sabaeanism
4. Judaism (Abraham, Moses, and the minor prophets)
5. Zoroastrianism (Zoroaster)
6. Christianity (Jesus Christ)
7. Islam (Muhammad)
8. Babi Faith (The Bab)
9. Baha'i Faith (Baha'u'llah)

They're not necessarily listed in historical order... Judaism is older than Buddhism.

In fact, Dawud, we recognize more than nine, but only nine are currently living religions (i.e., still have adherents).

The others are extinct.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

[Dawud]

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

In fact, Dawud, we recognize more than nine, but only nine are currently living religions (i.e., still have adherents).

The others are extinct.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

Yep

I think there might be two different Sabaeanisms, too, but I'm not sure. For one of them I've heard we no longer know the name of its Founder. For the other one, they are followers of John the Baptist who don't recognize Jesus.

[marktor]

Hello I am new here and just wanted to post something as an ex-Scientologist. Like gp1628 said, I also left Scientology for the invasion in my personal life, unrealistic goals and of pressure to donate for services. Most of the things you heard about Scientology are mostly not true. Hubbard did not create the religion in order to make money, it is a common rumor, nor is the religion a cult or anything terrifying. The people who spread these beliefs are either religious bigots or angry ex-members. These are the real scam artists and con men, not L. Ron Hubbard. Now as far as beliefs, Scientology is a borrowed religion, from Gnosticism, which was mentioned before, to Spiritualism, the Occult, Christian Science, Buddhism and even the Baha'i Faith plus many more. What is borrowed from the Baha'I Faith is a similar idea about a new civilization. In Scientology it is called a clear planet and in my opinion Hubbard directly borrowed exactly similar ideas of unity and peace from the Baha'i Faith. The main difference being that in Scientology, this cleared planet must happen before the Earth blows itself up and is do Scientologists imminent. The Earth is a hell and only Scientology can undue the horror and decay of society. In the Baha’I Faith and let me know if I am wrong, the Earth is growing into a mature age and that world peace is simply immanent rather then the Earth being is terror is it more optimistic, no?

I left because I am not qualified for Scientology anymore and in my opinion this kind of practice makes Scientology exclusive. One of my many disagreements was over staff, which like it was said before is not real employment and you pretty much get paid hardly anything. I was on staff for a year and the most I made was $100 in one week and that was a good week. You also end up with a 20 to 40 hour workweek or sometimes more like I did in Germany. By the way I was a staff member there in Germany for 9 months. I worked 90 hours per week for sometime between $15 to $35 US average. The reason why the Germans are prejudice against Scientology and other religions like the Baha’I Faith is simple actually. It is because most Germans, especially the Government still have not let go the Nazi mentality. Believe me, being an immigrant in Germany is a terrible thing or are looked at weird, disrespected and forced into conforming to a very xenophobic culture. Though not all Germans are like this however in Berlin, which was the capital of it all it is more prominent there plus include the history of Communism.

I also mainly Scientology left because of their views on illness. This by the way can be directly borrowed from Christian Science and in Scientology it is called PTS/SP tech. The idea is that someone is suppressing or invalidating you, called PTS or potential trouble source and you are sick because of this. Sometimes also you are sick because your body has an evil intention of not wanting to work and only Scientology can handle the illness. One thing too said before is that you do not need Scientology. I used to deliver the OCA Personality Test and if you want something to take home, there is no passing grade. Everyone's score is low; therefore the test is designed to show you that you need Scientology. It is that simple.

I am writing here because I am very interested in joining the Baha'i Faith and saw this thread. Do not hate Scientologists. Some are pretty good people and are hard workers even if what they believe something many people consider being odd. I think that there is no perfect group but I did have trouble with working staff and many other things. In the end I am looking forward not backwards.

Also too, the sci-fi teachings are not the core beliefs of Scientology, they are simply stories about past and are ways of explaining cosmology. The E-meter holds the same amount of electricity as a watch battery. I myself, have seen one being taken apart and it is not mysterious. In the end probably does not work the way the Scientologists say it does but it gives them a way to show that they are progressing towards spiritual freedom and I do not consider that a bad things.

I am interested in Baha’I and if anymore wants to know anything about my Scientology experience, just ask and I’ll give you simply my opinion but I don’t give sensationalism or victim stories so if you are looking for that then I can’t help you there.

[arthra]

Thanks Marktor for your post...

As you may know Baha'is are not "down" on any group and dislike entering into controversies about the validity or lack thereof of other organizations.. You won't see any pamphlets or sites sponsored by Baha'is against Scientology.

There's really very little connection though in my view between Baha'i Faith and Scientology ..

So I would hope that if anyone has any questions they would like to ask the Baha'is about their Faith here we can respond as this is what this Baha'i Forum is about.

We hope that people will take what they consider to be good from any group and be able to find out for themselves and sense what is the great challenge for humanity today...such as abolishing their prejudices..and building peace.

- Art

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Dawud

I think there might be two different Sabaeanisms, too, but I'm not sure. For one of them I've heard we no longer know the name of its Founder. For the other one, they are followers of John the Baptist who don't recognize Jesus.

I don't have anything handy to cite at the moment, but as I recall, these are two entirely different groups (one at the time of Abraham and one associated with John the Baptist) with similar names which are in fact spelled somewhat differently: Sabean and Sabaean, or some such. . . .

Regards,

Bruce