Scientology

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

My view is that it is a 'man-made' religion*. It has no belief in God to speak of. It's more like E.S.T. on steroids with a desire to avoid taxation in my own particular opinion which actually pre-dates my becoming a Baha`i.


*Personal view, I don't think the faith has a particular 'official' slant on the question.

Regards,
Scott

What religion isn't "man made"?.... lol.. Your religion was made by a man... So, like... Where is the line here?

Yes there is a belife in a Creator... Heard of the eight dynamics? I doubt so, so here is a video enjoy.

**EDIT** Sorry, it was someone helping to spread the misunderstanding of the 8 dynamics....

Here I shall type them to you....

1. Self (to be an individual body and mind.)
2. Creativity (family and activites... Future)
3. Group (to work and survive as a group.)
4. Speicies (for survival and harmony as mankind.)
5. Lifeforms (for protection and love of the plants and anmials....)
6. Universe (Or! MEST, Matter Energy Space Time.)
7. Spirit (the urge to surivive and thrive as spiritual beings)
8. Infinity (defined as inifinity it means to reach the level of being able to be with the Creator.)

These are the dynamics, and are also the symbology behind the 8 point Scientology cross....

The dynamics can be best represented as a series of circles, the centre number one and the rest a circle outside it as the ability grows you can expand out into the next circle and as you expand to the seventh circle, the one discovers the 8th circle the Creator....

Originally Posted by arthra

I don't think there's an official Baha'i position on Scientology per se...

I doubt though that a Baha'i can be a member of the Chruch of Scientology and still be considered a Baha'i.

- Art

Yes you can. The requirements are not that taxing to be a member of the baha'i.... Scientology can fit into it.... Again another example where I feel a major lack of misunderstanding..... The same kind of misunderstanding I had only hours ago. I think I am going to become CR's Scientologist researcher lol...

[Dawud]

We believe that God sends Prophets to teach mankind, and that the major world religions, when they are revealed, are not man made.

[Alex P]

And what criteria exactly does a prophet fit into? ALL religions are "made" by man though... Oh and Scientology is a modern day major religion, the only modern day major religion.....

[gp1628]

Actually that "quote" is misdirected. In various sources its supposed to have happened at a convention, or a bar, or a family gathering. If you search on the quote without the scientology aspect then its easily attributed to George Orwell, a science-fiction writer that in 1938 wrote it in A Letter to Jack Common.

The Guiness book of world records awarded LRH two rankings. Most prolific writer (he wrote in many genres, not just scifi) and published in most languages. Since he willing his copyrights to the church its fairly obvious that he put more millions into the church than he could ever have gotten from it.

For those who are curious, here is an interesting site.
Scientology Myths - L. Ron Hubbard

Im an ex-scientologist. There are plenty of reasons to quit scientology. But 99% of what I see posted about it is crap. There really is no reason to sling rechewed garbage about it. As far as pushing strange beliefs, trying to get me to give more than I wanted, invasive to my personal life, and bugging me after I decided to leave... I had more trouble from the Baptists.

[Alex P]

A bit like the JW misunderstandings and what not eh? Thank you for that link, I know I'll make much use of it!

[arthra]

It's interesting that this thread has been "resurrected" ..

Alex above wrote the following:

"The requirements are not that taxing to be a member of the baha'i.... Scientology can fit into it.... Again another example where I feel a major lack of misunderstanding....."

In my personal view Alex as a Baha'i, Scientology does not "fit into" the Baha'i Faith...that is, I would think there would contradictions to be both a Scientologist and Baha'i at the same time but that's not an offical position just my take on it..

I've been a Baha'i a long time and have never met anyone who was practising Scientology in the Faith.

If you know of a Baha'i who is also a Scientologist I think it would be interesting but our beliefs are probably closer to revealed monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Since this section of Interfaith Forums is concerning the Baha'i Faith don't you think it would be more appropriate to have issues about Scientology and the Jehovah's Witnesses carried on elsewhere...?

We Baha'is have no offical positions on the subject...

- Art

[arthra]

I should add that some time ago during the lifetime of Abdul-Baha there were Baha'is who also held church membership but when Shoghi Effendi became Guardian of the Faith after 1921 the friends were asked to leave the churches. This was difficult for some Baha'is who were also ministers and depended on pensions from their church later in life but was nonetheless accepted and they formally resigned their membership in the churches.

In a letter dated June 15, 1935 the Guardian Shoghi Effendi clarified that Baha'is could not hold membership in non-Baha'i religious organizations. Baha'is cannot "accept membership in any non-Baha'i ecclesiastical organization."

Since Scientology is a "church" by definition then no Baha'i can accept membership in it.

- Art

[Dawud]

True, one can't be both a Baha'i and a Scientologist. If one wants to know what the Baha'i Faith teaches, refer to the Book of Certitude, Gleanings From the Writings of Baha'u'llah, and other Books revealed by Baha'u'llah. We believe there have been three Messengers from God since Jesus Christ: Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah. We believe there will be more in the future, but not until at least a thousand years after Baha'u'llah.

[gp1628]

Interesting. I thought that Baha'i was fairly universal. Since Scientology is non-denominational (you can be any faith) I would think they were fairly compatible since they both willing to recognize the same messengers. Most of the messages certainly seem similar. I guess its like most of the other religions. You can be a Scientologist and something-else. But you often arent allowed to be something-else and a Scientologist.

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by gp1628

Interesting. I thought that Baha'i was fairly universal. Since Scientology is non-denominational (you can be any faith) I would think they were fairly compatible since they both willing to recognize the same messengers.

That was my understanding...

[Dawud]

I don't know much about Scientology, but I'll give another example. Sikhism is really cool, Sikhs have a lot of good principles and are like a peaceful middle ground between Islam and Hinduism. But if you're a Sikh, you're not a Baha'i. If you're a Baha'i, you're not a Sikh. It doesn't mean we can't get along, of course we can get along. Baha'u'llah said to "consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship."

Another example... Freemasonry is a charitable organization and Masons can belong to any religion. But Baha'is are not supposed to be Masons because we're working for world unity and don't want to be labeled as something that would or could cause division. Baha'is don't join any political parties and being part of one would hinder the cause of unity. A Baha'i is a Baha'i is a Baha'i. Not something else.

[Alex P]

Why not Sikhism? Because that to me, seems very very strange..... Unless I am quite mistaken they both (I know for a fact Sikhism does...) have ties to Islam....

[arthra]

Alex and gp1628:

True we are not Sikhs nor are we Scientologists..

If you have any questions about Baha'i Faith this is the place to ask about them....

- Art

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.

Originally Posted by Alex P

And what criteria exactly does a prophet fit into?

IOV, there are a number of criteria; here are a few (among others):

• They live a totally pure and godly life.
• They reveal a "Book," or set of religious teachings and laws.
• They uphold and praise prior Divine Messengers and the Revelations They brought.
• They frequently fulfill prophecies of earlier religions.
• They frequently make new prophesies Themselves.

Scientology is a modern day major religion, the only modern day major religion.....

Very wrong.

The Baha'i Faith is a major religion that began just over a century and a half ago. And the fact that it is major is demonstrated by the fact that (as asserted by non-Baha'i sources such as the Encyclopedia Britannica) the Faith is already, in terms of where adherents reside, after only 165 years the second most widespread religion in the world (exceeded only by Christianity)!

And the World Christian Encyclopedia (also clearly not a Baha'i source) states that the Baha'i Faith is the fastest-growing religion among those already established in over 100 countries (we've been in literally every country since 1991)!

As to Scientology, it's not only man-made (begun on a wager) but is clearly rejected in the scriptures of the Baha'i Faith.

Just the facts.

Peace,

Bruce

[Alex P]

Bruce how is it wrong? They are classed as a religion and they were founded in like what the 70's? Hence... A modern day religion... And Major modern day religion because of their numbers...

Art, could you explain to me Dawuds post? Why not Sikhism?