Santa V God

[Tao_Equus]

[/quote

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Actually no. It's the distinction between metaphysics and physics.


Why would the empirical standard for studying individual natural phenomena apply to metaphysics? How do you put the unitary structure of the Universe into a test tube? Like I said, makes no sense.

Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy not anything real or solid. But empirical science can study metaphysics and its claims and confirm or deny them.

You're left with the conclusion you had already drawn when you started this thread.

So far yes.

Tao

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Alex P

I'd say they are all singing the same song.... Just not in the same key.

Yup a discordant cacophony!!

[China Cat Sunflower]

I've been thinking about this thread, wondering how to explain to a believer why what they experience as a no brainer, that is the existence of God, makes no sense to a non believer. All I can say is that I just believe in one less God than they do, and if they would think about how they came to reject all the other Gods maybe they can see how I came to dismiss theirs. I keep hearing that atheism is a religion. Like not collecting stamps is a hobby, I suppose.

I'll try to write more about this later.

Chris

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Yup a discordant cacophony!!

Your singing along too

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I've been thinking about this thread, wondering how to explain to a believer why what they experience as a no brainer, that is the existence of God, makes no sense to a non believer. All I can say is that I just believe in one less God than they do, and if they would think about how they came to reject all the other Gods maybe they can see how I came to dismiss theirs. I keep hearing that atheism is a religion. Like not collecting stamps is a hobby, I suppose.

I'll try to write more about this later.

Chris

You did it again!! You always manage to saunter in whistling some tune or another and say more in a couple of lines than I manage in dozens of posts.

Tao

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Your singing along too

lol, most of the time it seems more like I'm screaming trying to make myself heard above the din.

[wil]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I've been thinking about this thread, wondering how to explain to a believer why what they experience as a no brainer, that is the existence of God, makes no sense to a non believer. All I can say is that I just believe in one less God than they do, and if they would think about how they came to reject all the other Gods maybe they can see how I came to dismiss theirs. I keep hearing that atheism is a religion. Like not collecting stamps is a hobby, I suppose.

I'll try to write more about this later.

Chris

Namaste Chris,

I think that is great, One less god. One less bell to answer.

I think I agree. It all depends on your definition of G!d. I don't dismiss the monotheistic Hindu view though either.

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Alex,

First of all astronomers and physicists postulated the theory that it should be possible to detect orbiting bodies around a star by the gravitational wobble that body would cause. Then the astronomers using this theory began the search. Low and behold they found such wobbling stars. They then used spectrography to analyse the light from the star and found that when a planet passed between the star and the observer the could read the signature change that confirmed a planet was indeed there. So theory and observation went hand in hand before anyone accepted this as proof. Not at all like faith.

Tao

Sorry kinda missed this one :\ Ok I'll put it another way, dust disks, they are a reaction that comes from a thing called a black hole, black holes have intense/insane power... They are not visible, but their effects can clearly be seen.. And they are believed in by many... You wouldn't say that is a fair statement to describe how people of a faith feel?

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I've been thinking about this thread, wondering how to explain to a believer why what they experience as a no brainer, that is the existence of God, makes no sense to a non believer.

As a believer, that's not the issue. Is that the issue for non-believers? That seems very narrow-minded. I think if a non-believer was being honest, in the face of all the evidence, he or she would say 'I can see how it makes sense for you, but it's not for me'.

I don't mind whether people choose to believe or not believe. What I do question is the rather facile assumption by non-believers that somehow believers are devoid of, or fail to utilise, their intellectual or reasoning faculty, and that it is their duty to continually challenge them on that basis.

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

All I can say is that I just believe in one less God than they do, and if they would think about how they came to reject all the other Gods maybe they can see how I came to dismiss theirs.

Sorry Chris, but that doesn't work.

That's akin to saying if people understood why I dismiss one scientific thesis, they'd understand why I think all science is bunkum. Or I listened to one band, didn't like it, and that's why all music's rubbish.

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I keep hearing that atheism is a religion. Like not collecting stamps is a hobby, I suppose.

I know! I wonder why some people put so much time and effort and energy into something that they insist is a waste of time and effort and energy?

It seems such a waste to me ...

Thomas

[Faithfulservant]

we were created to worship God... if we arent worshipping God we are worshipping something or someone else... (my belief)

I think with athiesm ... that they are worshipping themselves.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

we were created to worship God... if we arent worshipping God we are worshipping something or someone else... (my belief)

I think with athiesm ... that they are worshipping themselves.

or science, thankfully that never changes!

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

we were created to worship God... if we arent worshipping God we are worshipping something or someone else... (my belief)

I think with athiesm ... that they are worshipping themselves.

Easy enough to turn that on its head.

We were created by the biological imperative of our parents to breed. We grow, breed ourselves and die. Like any other living organism.

People who use theology do so as a crutch because they lack confidence in themselves, they are too afraid to take responsibility for their own lives.

An atheistic view, not always true but certainly true in some cases.

Tao

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

we were created to worship God... if we arent worshipping God we are worshipping something or someone else... (my belief)

I think with athiesm ... that they are worshipping themselves.

Wow, there are so many things wrong with this statement but let's just focus on one: If a person honestly cannot find it within themselves to believe what you believe they are self-centered narcissists?

[DrFree]

Hi, all,

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

We force our young kids to believe in Santa by our lies and by a multiplicity of cultural reinforcements. Is not belief in God exactly the same thing?

There are important differences, especially between Santa and the Jesus/God that has emerged through two millennia of Christianity:

• God requires us to believe in Him.
  Santa does not.
• God's existence is important to His believers.
  Santa doesn't have to exist to be real.
• God requires us to do what He says.
  Santa's love is unconditional.
• God teaches us to love by punishing us if we don't.
  Santa teaches us to love by loving us without expectation.
• A child who is taught the birth of Jesus on Christmas learns duty.
  A child who is taught about Santa on Christmas learns to love and give.

However you worship as an adult, the message of Santa is right for children.

Namiste,
Dr Free

[wil]

Originally Posted by dr. Free

• God requires us to believe in Him.
  Santa does not.
• God's existence is important to His believers.
  Santa doesn't have to exist to be real.
• God requires us to do what He says.
  Santa's love is unconditional.
• God teaches us to love by punishing us if we don't.
  Santa teaches us to love by loving us without expectation.
• A child who is taught the birth of Jesus on Christmas learns duty.
  A child who is taught about Santa on Christmas learns to love and give.

Namaste Dr. Free,

Viva la differance! I think G!d enjoys love and respect, but I see G!d as providing unconditional love, and not being with so low self esteem to have any need to require us to believe or love. In some respects it seems you have the two switched.