Santa Theory - Page 2

Faithfulservant · 09-15-2005, 08:16 AM

lol I dont remember ever believing in santa.. I remember being with my brothers and listening to my parents wrap the presents.. My older brother probably clued me into the truth early on. hehe

Bandit · 09-15-2005, 08:25 AM

yah, i think it happens that way too. i let my younger brothers believe in it until they figured it out. i always thought it was cute when kids figured it out & asked others if they believed in it & sometimes tried to convince others it was true. it was like they were growing up real fast when they would say, I dont believe in Santa. yet, inside they were still getting it figured out themselves.

Bandit · 09-15-2005, 08:33 AM

oldie but a goodie

SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE

Not quite "Twas the Night Before Christmas", but definitely an interesting perspective on what Santa's busiest day of the year entails.

SANTA CLAUS: AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE
There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical).

This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney,fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks.

This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second--3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour. The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them--Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch). 600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance--this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere.

The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip. Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m.p.s. in .001 seconds, would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,500 g's. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering blob of pink goo. Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now sorry.... Merry Christmas!

Scarlet Pimpernel · 09-15-2005, 11:25 AM

Bandit, that's hilarious...but your engineer is forgetting that not all Christian children receive their presents from Santa...as far as I know he's pretty much an American (and Canadian?) phenomenon...

Granted, my ideas of a British Christmas come pretty much straight from Dickens and Albert Finney, but I know there are a lot of Brits on this site to set me straight...last I heard, you guys got Father Christmas, a tall skinny guy, or has Santa taken over his route? And France and Spain, and I believe most of South America, get their presents from the Christ Child Himself. Here in the Netherlands, it's the original Saint Nicholas, another tall skinny guy dressed like a bishop (and oddly enough he lives in Spain). In Scandinavia it's the Christmas Gnome (don't ask), and I have no idea who comes to well-behaved Christian children in Asia, Africa, Australia, or Eastern Europe, for that matter.

And path of one, those Santa letters are a beautiful idea - your mom was a great woman.
I don't have any problem with Santa - I see him as the spirit of generosity too. I think most kids outgrow him quickly enough that it doesn't do any harm. I think it's more dependent on the atmosphere in the home that determines how materialistic kids are at Christmas.

taijasi · 09-15-2005, 04:24 PM

*chuckle* I find it mildly amusing that Santa, of all the jolly old characters from history, might be singled out as Satan's ruse. This is notwithstanding the fact that his name can easily be misspelled, and I've always enjoyed that. Makes for a neat Futurama episode!

Apologies if I haven't sifted through this thread to see the history that someone else provided, but of course, I think we all know that in truth, the idea of Santa comes from St. Nicholas, a Turkish saint of the 4th Century AD. Sadly, Emperor Diocletian persecuted and imprisoned Bishop Nicholas.

The fact that Santa has come to symbolize with some the materialism and greed of modern civilization, esp. western civilization, and more particularly America ... is a tragedy, indeed. Santa Claus has always been a beautiful symbol of selflessness, generosity and kind-heartedness. But we have borrowed the image and degraded its true worth. We have pulled him down to the same level of the false deity that millions pray to daily to fulfil our own, selfish wishes. Children are now taught - as if it was always custom - to make their list of toys for Santa to deliver. In return, they need only dream of sugar plums. What good are switches and coal if we never deliver them!

I am amazed and disgusted to see the ultra-conservatives, both religiously and politically speaking, launching their crusade at the video game industry, as if these greedy corporate executives could really give a damn about sex and violence in video games. It's so ridiculous it makes me rofl, as the violence in these games is really just excellent training/conditioning for going on a killfest later in the armed services ... but the moment you see a cartoon figure pulling a Janet Jackson all hell breaks loose. Morals!!! Decency!!! The horror, the horror!!!

What does this have to do with Santa? Simple. Instead of looking around for signs that Satan is seeking to deceive us with jolly old elves, and similarly instead of placing blame for our children's behavioral problems with the video game industry (of all things) ... wouldn't it be wiser to look at our parenting!?! Ahhh, geeee, really?

It's amazing that kids don't sprout horns, tails, and forked tongues given the way they're raised these days. And lest I sound like some old geezer talkin' bout the good ol' days when I was young (33 is pretty young, isn't it?) ... I might just add that I was allowed to be a little hellion, so I think I know what I'm talking about. I don't blame my parents, because I was rather unruly, but ultimately, if parents and early schooling doesn't get kids on the right track - is it any wonder that video games don't straighten them out later?

And then that pesky, evil Santa Claus gets ahold of 'em ... whoa be it!

(somewhat tongue in cheek .... )

protokletos

Bandit · 09-15-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

Bandit, that's hilarious...but your engineer is forgetting that not all Christian children receive their presents from Santa...as far as I know he's pretty much an American (and Canadian?) phenomenon...

Granted, my ideas of a British Christmas come pretty much straight from Dickens and Albert Finney, but I know there are a lot of Brits on this site to set me straight...last I heard, you guys got Father Christmas, a tall skinny guy, or has Santa taken over his route? And France and Spain, and I believe most of South America, get their presents from the Christ Child Himself. Here in the Netherlands, it's the original Saint Nicholas, another tall skinny guy dressed like a bishop (and oddly enough he lives in Spain). In Scandinavia it's the Christmas Gnome (don't ask), and I have no idea who comes to well-behaved Christian children in Asia, Africa, Australia, or Eastern Europe, for that matter.

And path of one, those Santa letters are a beautiful idea - your mom was a great woman.
I don't have any problem with Santa - I see him as the spirit of generosity too. I think most kids outgrow him quickly enough that it doesn't do any harm. I think it's more dependent on the atmosphere in the home that determines how materialistic kids are at Christmas.

he forgot that santa has magic & can float up the chimney by putiing a finger on the side of his nose. if we dont have a chimney he comes through the front door. LOL oh, & the reindeer have magic too. I find all those stories & songs fascinating.
i agree the materialism starts with the parent & starts at home.

Quahom1 · 09-15-2005, 05:40 PM

St. Nicholas was a real person. He filled the shoes of children who were good, with sweetmeats, and other small trinkets, and those who were bad, with coal and hazel branch switches. He was a cobbler, whom the whole town knew and respected. So he heard who did what and when and why...through out the year. And he loved the children. So he did what he thought was best for each.

It was a local tradition, until one night Nicholas was accosted and killed by bandits. As a remembrance, the parents continued the filling of the shoes of children with sweetmeats, trinkets, coal and switches, as required. The legend began...

Until 1883, Christmas in big city America was not a holy event. It was a racous, drunk fest. It was however, kept holy and pious in prairie homes, and was a time of gratefullness and reflection. People gathered together in the dead of winter to warm eachother with company, and understand or reflect on the concept of a savior, in the still of winter.

The city did not catch on this, until 20 years later (and when suburbs began to sprout).

Santa Claus, is St.Nicholas, Kris Kringle, Father winter, us, all roled into one.

Satan has nothing to do with it. After all, Santa Claus gives, with no expectation of receiving anything in return...

There is a picture I've seen somewhere, that shows Santa Claus kneeling before the infant with his cap in hand, head bowed in respect, and the message is "the true meaning of Christmas".
We are Santa Claus (if only for once a year).

v/r

Q

17th Angel · 09-15-2005, 05:42 PM

Going slightly off topic, but as a child, I seriously planned to kidnap Santa and use him to gain world domination

It was a perfect plan and would have worked.... but there was one tiny problem he never really showed up.... :| Theres me at ten years old ready to take over the world and boom..... foiled again, Would of gotten away with it too if it wasnt for those pesky kids!... Kinda going scooby doo here sorry.

Bandit · 09-15-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

St. Nicholas was a real person. He filled the shoes of children who were good, with sweetmeats, and other small trinkets, and those who were bad, with coal and hazel branch switches. He was a cobbler, whom the whole town knew and respected. So he heard who did what and when and why...through out the year. And he loved the children. So he did what he thought was best for each.

It was a local tradition, until one night Nicholas was accosted and killed by bandits. As a remembrance, the parents continued the filling of the shoes of children with sweetmeats, trinkets, coal and switches, as required. The legend began...

Until 1883, Christmas in big city America was not a holy event. It was a racous, drunk fest. It was however, kept holy and pious in prairie homes, and was a time of gratefullness and reflection. People gathered together in the dead of winter to warm eachother with company, and understand or reflect on the concept of a savior, in the still of winter.

There is a picture I've seen somewhere, that shows Santa Claus kneeling before the infant with his cap in hand, head bowed in respect, and the message is "the true meaning of Christmas".
We are Santa Claus (if only for once a year).

v/r

Q

nice post Q & informative.

Bandit · 09-15-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Going slightly off topic, but as a child, I seriously planned to kidnap Santa and use him to gain world domination

It was a perfect plan and would have worked.... but there was one tiny problem he never really showed up.... :| Theres me at ten years old ready to take over the world and boom..... foiled again, Would of gotten away with it too if it wasnt for those pesky kids!... Kinda going scooby doo here sorry.

ah. the grinch who stole Christmas.

17th Angel · 09-15-2005, 05:50 PM

lol never seen that film or read that book... Maybe I should. Not like that now, but at the time I believed it was an awesome idea.... Oh well. Also just for the record, I think a few people may have the wrong idea. I myself do not believe Santa is a trick of Satan... I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought, sadly I just plainly do not believe in Santa, for obvious reasons.

Quahom1 · 09-15-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

lol never seen that film or read that book... Maybe I should. Not like that now, but at the time I believed it was an awesome idea.... Oh well. Also just for the record, I think a few people may have the wrong idea. I myself do not believe Santa is a trick of Satan... I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought, sadly I just plainly do not believe in Santa, for obvious reasons.

But I submit with respect...you are Santa (as are we all).

Scarlet Pimpernel · 09-15-2005, 08:08 PM

By the way, in high school I attended church with the woman whose father was the original model for the Coca-Cola Santa Claus. I visited her house once and her front hallway was full to bursting with photographs of her father dressed as Santa in various poses, as models for the artists. Yes indeedy, Santa Claus comes from a small farming town in central California...

How's that for six degrees of separation?

Quahom1 · 09-16-2005, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet Pimpernel

By the way, in high school I attended church with the woman whose father was the original model for the Coca-Cola Santa Claus. I visited her house once and her front hallway was full to bursting with photographs of her father dressed as Santa in various poses, as models for the artists. Yes indeedy, Santa Claus comes from a small farming town in central California...

How's that for six degrees of separation?

Cool! But can he be linked to Kevin Bacon?

v/r

Q

17th Angel · 09-16-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

But I submit with respect...you are Santa (as are we all).

Quahom1, because of what you represent I take interest in your posts, could you tell me with slightly more detail how I am Santa? Do you mean because I give gifts to others? If so then, I sadly haven't lol. My Girlfriend really loves X-mas, so this year I am going to try and make an effort to get into the, what do you call it..... Christmas spirit. Bah hum bug..