Saddam Is Dead

[wil]

The old saw that Iraq was headed to Saudi Arabia is so reminiscent of and smells just like the dominoe theory that we were fed over Vietnam...after many $$ and lives we left that country and the SVA to be run over and abused just like we did the south of Iraq at the end of the first Gulf War.

It is hilarious anytime the US claims the UN as the reason we do anything when 99% of the time we decry them as useless and ignore them.

We waltzed over that fierce Iraq army with our so called coalition of 34 states...despite the 80% of the men, 80% of the money and 80% of the equipment was US... are those exact numbers or generalizations...generalizations to be gladly proved wrong...but I guarentee my guess of US involvement in the coalition is closer to correct than 1/34th

Forget WMDs and Nation Building we were told emphatically that it would be 50 billion dollars for success in Iraq. Congress estimated 80 billion and was told by the administration they didn't know what they were talking about....the administration was right...600 billion and counting later....thousands of 'coalition lives' and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives after "Mission Accomplished" We are no closer to being accomplished than we are knowing what the mission is.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

By chance on tonights BBC TV news I got more information on this. America is now in debt to China to the tune of $1.3 Trillion. Of which $560 Billion are US treasury notes, (I.O.U's in effect). So that is not the day to day or hr to hour to-ing and fro-ing you would like to believe. It is infact $1 billion dollars a day for the last 560 days, with no payments. The reason this has made the news is because economists have estimated for the past 4 years that the figure of $1.4 Trillion is the point at which China would have the ability to 'crash' the US economy.

TE

Sorry, China does not have enough capital to "crash" the US economy. We saw that just a few weeks ago, during the sell off of Chinese bonds and cashing in on Chinese stock issues. The dollar remained unchanged, yet China and other Asian economies were the ones that suffered a "shakeup".

Treasury notes are small yield bonds, and the 560 billion you refer to is covered by the Gold in Fort Knox (just as an aside), if China wished to call in their marker immediately.

You really have to research the economic impact the US and it's affiliates and corporations have on the rest of the world market (China and India in particular). If the dollar falls, the entire world economy suffers, significantly.

Was it you that stated we have to depend on the oil from the east? In any event I meantioned Canada's vast shale oil fields...but I failed to mention that the US has the largest shale oil fields in the world (sitting right under the Rocky mountains). This "little" country (land mass wise) also has 1/3rd of the world's coal reserves...

Oil/energy is not a concern of the US in the long run (if that wasn't you, I apologize).

We (the US) are not so dependent on the world's energy as you are lead to believe. However, we do capitalize on cheaper energy where we can...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

The old saw that Iraq was headed to Saudi Arabia is so reminiscent of and smells just like the dominoe theory that we were fed over Vietnam...after many $$ and lives we left that country and the SVA to be run over and abused just like we did the south of Iraq at the end of the first Gulf War.

It is hilarious anytime the US claims the UN as the reason we do anything when 99% of the time we decry them as useless and ignore them.

We waltzed over that fierce Iraq army with our so called coalition of 34 states...despite the 80% of the men, 80% of the money and 80% of the equipment was US... are those exact numbers or generalizations...generalizations to be gladly proved wrong...but I guarentee my guess of US involvement in the coalition is closer to correct than 1/34th

LOL, tell that to the Saudis who INVITED the US to come protect them and built bases for them to opperate out of.

Also, each country in the coalition gave what they could afford (and I'm not talking about lives). The US happens to be the richest and able to provide the most.

You know the irony of this "exercise" we're having on the merits of the US in the Middle East? You and me and everyone else can openly disagree, and even get snide about it.

Thank the next soldier you see for that right...

v/r

Joshua

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Was it you that stated we have to depend on the oil from the east? In any event I meantioned Canada's vast shale oil fields...but I failed to mention that the US has the largest shale oil fields in the world (sitting right under the Rocky mountains). This "little" country (land mass wise) also has 1/3rd of the world's coal reserves...

Oil/energy is not a concern of the US in the long run (if that wasn't you, I apologize).

We (the US) are not so dependent on the world's energy as you are lead to believe. However, we do capitalize on cheaper energy where we can...

Cheaper is right, the fields in Canada are only profitable over $60 a barrel...and the ones in the US won't be until $80 a barrel...of course that is still a lot cheaper than the energy required to make ethanol or extract hydrogen...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Cheaper is right, the fields in Canada are only profitable over $60 a barrel...and the ones in the US won't be until $80 a barrel...of course that is still a lot cheaper than the energy required to make ethanol or extract hydrogen...

We're paying over $62.00 a barrel of sweet crude today!!! And your point is?

[wil]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

We're paying over $62.00 a barrel of sweet crude today!!! And your point is?

Today Canada is making money on their fields...last winter when it dropped down below they minimized production, they increase production when the value is there...of course those dollar amonts for US and Canada ie shale extraction being cost effective will increase as cost of living (and cost of fuel increases)...

Yes we have plenty of High Priced oil in North America. What we lack is easy oil fields of the past that provided us with the under a buck fuel....finding, removing, refining, shipping oil from 1/2 way around the world is still more profitable than the oil at home.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Indeed, Glaspie's transcript has three conflicting variances as to what the good ambassador stated.

The point I made is that no hostilities occured for six months after the invasion. Furthermore the coalition that finally did go in included Arab nations as well as the US, and was Sanctioned by the UN. Also, Bush Senior, once accomplishing the santioned goals, called a halt to hostilities, nor did he go into Iraq and attempt to dismantle the army, nor topple Saddam.

Saddam, had six months to leave Kuwait and back his army away from Saudi Arabia UAE and Kuwait, BEFORE the US lead coalition went in and forced him to withdrawl back to within his own borders.

I am of the opinion that you are deliberately not understanding the actual events leading up to the first Gulf war.

I can't help that.

v/r

Joshua

The version Wil linked to is cached in the Margret Thatcher archive. You now going to tell me Thatcher is/was anti-american? This document is the genuine article and subsequent 'clouding' documents released by the CIA are transparently written after the fact and are crassly disengenious.

The events leading up to the gulf war were thus: The US supplies many $billions of military and economic aid, these are loans repayable in oil revenues, to help Iraq beat Iran. This includes 771 seperate shipments of chemical and biological agents, enough according to a State Department breifing paper for Iraq to use such weapons on a daily basis.
Bechtel, a private company with close ties to the Bush and Bin Laden families build a pipeline from Iraq through Jordan on a $684million loan of your tax dollars.
War between Iraq and Iran ends. The "business partnership" comprising The Bush Family and freinds, and the Royal families of Kuwait, Saudia Arabia, and the UAE push Iraq into a corner by manipulation of Oil prices. Iraq also claimed that during its invasion of Kuwait it found documents that clearly defined a plot between the said parties to force saddams hand.
During Iraq's war with Iran it was used to recieving battlefeild information from the US. The Galspie transcript clearly gives him the information that the invasion of Kuwait 'should be done quickly'.

I am not an appologist for either your republican hegemony there in the US nor for Iraq, nor for any other group or organisation. I veiw this subject disspaionately and without predjudice. Q you are overtly republican. So before you go accusing me of "deliberately not understanding" I suggest you assess your own understanding. Because it seems to me you draw 'facts' from republican propagandists.


On the Issue of US debt, the US is massively indebted while certain economic elites have prosperred by the billion on your Tax dollars, most of them with close ties to the Bush family. If you cant see that then consider the possibility that you are deliberately not seeing that.

Regards

TE

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

You know the irony of this "exercise" we're having on the merits of the US in the Middle East? You and me and everyone else can openly disagree, and even get snide about it.

Thank the next soldier you see for that right...

How irritatingly patronizing. Okay, here's a pat on the back from me. "Good boy." That feels nice, huh?



Soldiers ain't solely responsible for free speech. To make that claim is utterly ridiculous.

[17th Angel]

Soldiers get things done ;/

[wil]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Soldiers ain't solely responsible for free speech. To make that claim is utterly ridiculous.

Not solely, but they do have a play in it....but the only wars/military actions that actually can be said to have been in 'defense' of the US and its free speech in the last 100 years are WWI, WWII, and Afganistan. Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Boznia, GW (bush) I, and GW Bush II all had suspect reasons to engage...er start pre-emptive strikes...

More vigilance on actual defense and less on surreptitious offences and maybe we would have caught the FBI memos regarding the 9/11 flyers...

Originally Posted by TE

Q you are overtly republican.

err... umm former democract here...card carrying republican for since before Reagan...fiscally and defendebly constitutional conservative....leaning Libertarian with all the excrement our current batch of republican leaders provide.

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Soldiers get things done ;/

Yes, but only if their leaders up the entire chain of command have their heads screwed on straight.
That doesn't appear to be the case these days...my 2 cents.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The version Wil linked to is cached in the Margret Thatcher archive. You now going to tell me Thatcher is/was anti-american? This document is the genuine article and subsequent 'clouding' documents released by the CIA are transparently written after the fact and are crassly disengenious.

The events leading up to the gulf war were thus: The US supplies many $billions of military and economic aid, these are loans repayable in oil revenues, to help Iraq beat Iran. This includes 771 seperate shipments of chemical and biological agents, enough according to a State Department breifing paper for Iraq to use such weapons on a daily basis.
Bechtel, a private company with close ties to the Bush and Bin Laden families build a pipeline from Iraq through Jordan on a $684million loan of your tax dollars.
War between Iraq and Iran ends. The "business partnership" comprising The Bush Family and freinds, and the Royal families of Kuwait, Saudia Arabia, and the UAE push Iraq into a corner by manipulation of Oil prices. Iraq also claimed that during its invasion of Kuwait it found documents that clearly defined a plot between the said parties to force saddams hand.
During Iraq's war with Iran it was used to recieving battlefeild information from the US. The Galspie transcript clearly gives him the information that the invasion of Kuwait 'should be done quickly'.

I am not an appologist for either your republican hegemony there in the US nor for Iraq, nor for any other group or organisation. I veiw this subject disspaionately and without predjudice. Q you are overtly republican. So before you go accusing me of "deliberately not understanding" I suggest you assess your own understanding. Because it seems to me you draw 'facts' from republican propagandists.


On the Issue of US debt, the US is massively indebted while certain economic elites have prosperred by the billion on your Tax dollars, most of them with close ties to the Bush family. If you cant see that then consider the possibility that you are deliberately not seeing that.

Regards

TE

Actually I'm independent...I vote for the best people, not the best party...

I'm also a patriot, and believe whole heartedly in my land, my nation and my fellow citizens. I do not believe in handouts, but do believe in communities lending a hand. I do not believe in the draft, but damn well expect our citizens to stand up to defend our land, and our neighbors.

You know what I'd like to see? Guiliani or McCane as president with H. Clinton as the Vice President...yep, you read right.

I'd like to see Joe Lieberman as Secretary of State, and Condoleeza Rice as Secretary of Defense.

I definitely can't wait until they pull Pelousi's plug. She's out for number one and that is it, and the whole world can see it.

So, you really don't know me at all.

addenum: I'd like the US to withdrawl from Iraq to the borders, and just sit and wait...then we'd see the hands of the other players. Only problem with that is we made a "promise" to those who dyed their fingers purple (all 8 million of them)...and I'd not want them to suffer, even a little bit.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Yes, but only if their leaders up the entire chain of command have their heads screwed on straight.
That doesn't appear to be the case these days...my 2 cents.

flow....

So not true...but then you don't have to carry out orders from time to time...

[wil]

Patriot.

Sort of like being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Yeah forget those Ruskies or Afghanies or Nigerians...it is US first.

Lucky sperm club we all are huh?

Doesn't that not quite sit well.

Due to the fact that you were born in Vietnam in the 1940's...we'll be bombing you for 10 years...it is my patriotic duty for being born here.

I mean truly, what is up with that.

We are born on this globe, brothers and sisters...our dna could only recently be differentiated....what the hell are we doing slaughtering our own anywhere? It baffles me.

Patriot, we wear it like a badge of honor...and so does the other side...we call them terrorists, they call us infidels...all because we were born here and they were born there....switch parents and you'd be on the other side.

Patriot....We will fight against our enemies wherever...be they have the same skin color...no bother...be they have the same religion...don't worry...they are on that side of the line.

The war between the states has story after story of brothers fighting for opposite sides....the rest of the wars are no different...brothers killing brothers...

We are one. We need to wake up and realize it.

Patriot.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Patriot.

Sort of like being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Yeah forget those Ruskies or Afghanies or Nigerians...it is US first.

Lucky sperm club we all are huh?

You know, rudeness does not suit you...

v/r

Joshua