Ridiculous devotion?

[brian]

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

[louis]

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

From Louis...
Of course I think it's extreme... but they're only "acting out"
in a physical way what they've already done in a psychological
way. They're demonstrating their willingness to sacrifice their
physical bodies the same way they sacrificed their individual
viewpints by "buying into" the church's official viewpoint.

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by brian

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

Namaste brian,

thank you for the post.

i've been told that jumping out of perfectly good airplanes is "a little extreme" so i'm not really in a position to say... since i happen to enjoy jumping out of those perfectly good airplanes

perhaps... people respond as they are able.. some more capable than others...

[samabudhi]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

airplanes

Vaj!? You're not turning, .....(Buddha forbid) "Yank" are you?

[I, Brian]

Well, if Vaj likes heights, okie needs his roof doing in a few years...

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

Vaj!? You're not turning, .....(Buddha forbid) "Yank" are you?

LOL

One nation, under Buddha, with liberty and justice for all

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Well, if Vaj likes heights, okie needs his roof doing in a few years...

that's not quite high enough though

actually... and this may seem very odd... i've got a bit of a problem with heights.. which is why parachuting was such a great therapy for me... i'm pretty much all about confronting psychological fears and trying to overcome them with any skillful means.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

i'm pretty much all about confronting psychological fears and trying to overcome them with any skillful means.

hmm, very tantric!

[Mus Zibii]

Originally Posted by brian

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

Actually, the first time I saw that (on TV) I thought they were nuts, and while I won't say that they make perfect sense and don't step over the bounds of lunacy, I have come to understand it better. Without even commenting on how harsh life in the Phillipines might color their brand of Christianity, the faith in itself almost invites a preoccupation with a 'cleansing suffering'. And though I'd never go so far as to act out a watered down execution, the sensations have played themselves out in my head.

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by Avinash

hmm, very tantric!

which, all things considered, is a positive thing for me... as i'm consider myself to be a tantric practioner

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by brian

Basically, a number of people in the Philipines have themselves ritually crucified, nails and all, every Easter.

It's not updated on the BBC website for this year, so I have to use last year's report.

In pictures: Philippines crucifixions

Anyone else think this is just a little extreme?

Namaskar,

The real surrender to God or your higher Self is an internal surrender of the ego. This can be done through spiritual sadhana and may be strengthened through external selfless service.

No amount of self-inflicted pain can speed up this surrender, unless that pain is of benefit to others and done with a selfless attitude. So extensive fasting, hanging yourself on flesh-hooks (India), standing on one leg for five years, whipping yourself (Irak/Iran) or having yourself crucified have nothing to do with devotion. But they may make for an attractive show and could attract tourists.

[samabudhi]

Originally Posted by Avinash

No amount of self-inflicted pain can speed up this surrender, unless that pain is of benefit to others and done with a selfless attitude. So extensive fasting, hanging yourself on flesh-hooks (India), standing on one leg for five years, whipping yourself (Irak/Iran) or having yourself crucified have nothing to do with devotion. But they may make for an attractive show and could attract tourists.

Fascinating. Intense torture and pain can lead to a dissociation from experience. This is ego-death, just like any traumatic event would precipitate. The problem is that it is not earned through intention and so the effects are not evolutionary. The state is dissolved as soon as homeostasis sets in. It's more of a biological thing and there is less control over it.

The point is to release oneself from the clutches of the ego through the intention of being selfless. A slower form of ego dissolution, but a gradual, controlled and more powerful one.

I'm sure the participants do get some spiritual reward from these practises, but really, is it worth the price?

[Mus Zibii]

I saw an interview with a Canadian who had been tortured in Saudi Arabia and was forced to confess to terrorist (so that the government could claim that the terrorists were westerning faking Islamic terror, etc) acts. He said at one point something that made me think of the physical in regards to the mental and spiritually in a totally different way. He said, Orwell was wrong. They can torture you, they can make you say things that you know are untrue, but they cannot reach the part of you where truth is hidden.

I think the various forms of self abuse (including the socially accepted forms) are taken subconsciously as an affirmation of that. Its like a very blunt way of developing a spiritual muscle that would otherwise go unstrained through faith and thought.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by Mus Zibii

I think the various forms of self abuse (including the socially accepted forms) are taken subconsciously as an affirmation of that. Its like a very blunt way of developing a spiritual muscle that would otherwise go unstrained through faith and thought.

Namaskar,

That may be so, but similar hardships may automatically come to you if you decide to sacrifice your personal comforts and pleasures for a great positive public cause. If you confront your fears and self-doubt and go ahead, irrespective of the opposition that you encounter, then that will develop your spiritual muscle much better than with self abuse.

[Mus Zibii]

Great, now I have a potato stuck in my...

But yeah, you make a good point. I just keep thinking back to the less modern eras where a long life with time enough to meditate wasn't an option.