resurrection

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

i supose it depends on weather we believe the bible , because that is what the bible teaches .plus Jesus is the king of that heavenly goverment not just any man. he is the image of God with the attributes of God , LOVE,JUSTICE, WISDOM,POWERyes he will rule in a just way , not like the goverments around today which are all manmade . there is a big difference. was he not the greatest teacher on the earth when he was here as a man,plus people will not be ruled in the afterlife they will be on the earth enjoying the paradise earth.the ones in heaven are working along with Jesus .

That concept strips man of his basic spiritual need...to accomplish things. I know that I can handle "Club Med" for about 2 days before I begin to go stir crazy, for example. I have to do something, fix something, build something, solve a problem or a puzzle, create something.

LOL, while on a week long cruise on a ship, I repaired the sink in my stateroom, and begged permission from the Captian to go into the engineroom. Then I volunteered to be an "oiler" (one who cleans oil spots, dirt from the spaces, and lubricates mechanical parts, on a four to six hour watch schedule), just to give myself something constructive to do.

Without adventure, or goals, or dreams, the spirit of man atrophies. The idea that men will rule over me from heaven, while I sit on an earthly paradise (no matter how symbolic), just grates at my spirit. To be subjugated to man's rule for eternity just does not cut the mustard. I don't care how "special" those men might be. My inborn sense of being equal to all men, would rise up in defiance and rebellion. (That is why son must leave father and mother at some point and make his own way in the world).

You description of Man's paradise, would be hell to my spirit. Your description of man in heaven would put me loathe to enter that place.

We are told all our lives "Do not judge others", only to find myself standing in judgement over others, for ever? That isn't heaven. Neither is having someone else do everything for me.

I think heaven is much more than that. I know we aren't absorbed into some greater consciousness, because we are told we retain our own identities. That implies, our own drives, dreams, will, etc., be maintained.

Your heavenly concept would be a prison to some people. Yes, I'd like earth to be a perfect "home" to come to. But then after resting, I'd want to get back out into the cosmos to see what it is all about. I'd like to be in the presence of God (directly), with eternally implied consent. In other words, to visit with Him intimitely anytime I wished, and have Him glad to see me. But then when I wanted to go explore something, He'd smile and say "have at it".

Your presentation of heaven is rather limited and stifling for my tastes.

this is becoming an excersize in futility.

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That concept strips man of his basic spiritual need...to accomplish things. I know that I can handle "Club Med" for about 2 days before I begin to go stir crazy, for example. I have to do something, fix something, build something, solve a problem or a puzzle, create something.

LOL, while on a week long cruise on a ship, I repaired the sink in my stateroom, and begged permission from the Captian to go into the engineroom. Then I volunteered to be an "oiler" (one who cleans oil spots, dirt from the spaces, and lubricates mechanical parts, on a four to six hour watch schedule), just to give myself something constructive to do.

Without adventure, or goals, or dreams, the spirit of man atrophies. The idea that men will rule over me from heaven, while I sit on an earthly paradise (no matter how symbolic), just grates at my spirit. To be subjugated to man's rule for eternity just does not cut the mustard. I don't care how "special" those men might be. My inborn sense of being equal to all men, would rise up in defiance and rebellion. (That is why son must leave father and mother at some point and make his own way in the world).

You description of Man's paradise, would be hell to my spirit. Your description of man in heaven would put me loathe to enter that place.

We are told all our lives "Do not judge others", only to find myself standing in judgement over others, for ever? That isn't heaven. Neither is having someone else do everything for me.

I think heaven is much more than that. I know we aren't absorbed into some greater consciousness, because we are told we retain our own identities. That implies, our own drives, dreams, will, etc., be maintained.

Your heavenly concept would be a prison to some people. Yes, I'd like earth to be a perfect "home" to come to. But then after resting, I'd want to get back out into the cosmos to see what it is all about. I'd like to be in the presence of God (directly), with eternally implied consent. In other words, to visit with Him intimitely anytime I wished, and have Him glad to see me. But then when I wanted to go explore something, He'd smile and say "have at it".

Your presentation of heaven is rather limited and stifling for my tastes.

this is becoming an excersize in futility.

Q

what makes you think that we are all going to be sat round doing nothing we dont even know what it will be like to live in perfection but the bible tells us that God will satisfy the desires of us all. we dont at the momment even use all of our brain capacitywho knows what we will be capable of when we do things the way God intended in the first place . but we didnt give God the chance did we .we though we knew better than God

[Faithfulservant]

JW's teach utopia.. not heaven. big difference.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

JW's teach utopia.. not heaven. big difference.

Utopia?do you not believe what the bible tells us then,?the whole theme of the bible is about Gods kingdom goverment
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite Daniel 2;44

Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment,,, John 5;28-29

Acts 24:15: "I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Both those who lived in harmony with God’s righteous ways and people who, out of ignorance, did unrighteous things will be resurrected. The Bible does not answer all our questions as to whether certain specific individuals who have died will be resurrected. But we can be confident that God, who knows all the facts, will act impartially, with justice tempered by mercy that does not ignore his righteous standards. Compare Genesis 18:25.

Rev. 20:13, 14: "The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." (So, those whose death was to due to Adamic sin will be raised, whether they were buried at sea or in Hades, the common earthly grave of dead mankind.) so i would say that is not utopia but a bible promise or would you not agree?
Matt. 6:10: "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth

Ps. 37:29: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it

[Faithfulservant]

Etymology: Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
1 : an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2 often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3 : an impractical scheme for social improvement


Etymology: Middle English heven, from Old English heofon; akin to Old High German himil heaven
1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome : FIRMAMENT -- usually used in plural
2 a often capitalized : the dwelling place of the Deity and the joyful abode of the blessed dead b : a spiritual state of everlasting communion with God
3 capitalized : GOD 1
4 : a place or condition of utmost happiness


Etymology: Middle English paradis, from Old French, from Late Latin paradisus, from Greek paradeisos, literally, enclosed park, of Iranian origin; akin to Avestan pairi-daEza- enclosure; akin to Greek peri around and to Greek teichos wall -- more at PERI-, DOUGH
1 a : EDEN 2 b : an intermediate place or state where the righteous departed await resurrection and judgment c : HEAVEN
2 : a place or state of bliss, felicity, or delight

My bible teaches Heaven.. or Paradise according to websters dictionary... My bible does not teach Utopia.

Considering the word Utopia is not even IN the bible... well you know how that goes... My bible was written a bit before 1516..

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Etymology: Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
1 : an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2 often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3 : an impractical scheme for social improvement


Etymology: Middle English heven, from Old English heofon; akin to Old High German himil heaven
1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome : FIRMAMENT -- usually used in plural
2 a often capitalized : the dwelling place of the Deity and the joyful abode of the blessed dead b : a spiritual state of everlasting communion with God
3 capitalized : GOD 1
4 : a place or condition of utmost happiness


Etymology: Middle English paradis, from Old French, from Late Latin paradisus, from Greek paradeisos, literally, enclosed park, of Iranian origin; akin to Avestan pairi-daEza- enclosure; akin to Greek peri around and to Greek teichos wall -- more at PERI-, DOUGH
1 a : EDEN 2 b : an intermediate place or state where the righteous departed await resurrection and judgment c : HEAVEN
2 : a place or state of bliss, felicity, or delight

My bible teaches Heaven.. or Paradise according to websters dictionary... My bible does not teach Utopia.

Considering the word Utopia is not even IN the bible... well you know how that goes... My bible was written a bit before 1516..

yes you are right utopia is not written in the bible because the promises in the bible are not imaginary they are true
Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth...matthew 6;10

(Luke 23:43) And he said to him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.

(Isaiah 65:17) "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.

(Revelation 21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more

"Surely just as I have figured, so it must occur; and just as I have counseled, that is what will come true."—ISAIAH 14:24 yes it will come true because all of Gods promises come true. great , resurrection on to a paradise earth and the prospect of living forever....yipeee

[Faithfulservant]

Thank you for making my point for me see we agree on something else!

The only thing I would change is that the greek do not have punctuation so Luke would say verily I say unto you today you will be with me in paradise. Dont add the comma in where it doesnt belong. I would also add that the many times Jesus Christ said verily I say unto you... Which is many many times... He never ever said verily I say unto you today, ...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Thank you for making my point for me see we agree on something else!

The only thing I would change is that the greek do not have punctuation so Luke would say verily I say unto you today you will be with me in paradise. Dont add the comma in where it doesnt belong. I would also add that the many times Jesus Christ said verily I say unto you... Which is many many times... He never ever said verily I say unto you today, ...

"Today." Although WH puts a comma in the Gr. text before the word for "today," commas were not used in Gr. uncial mss. In keeping with the context,NWT omit the comma before "today." Syc (fifth cent. C.E.) renders this text: "Amen, I say to thee to-day that with me thou shalt be in the Garden of Eden."—F. C. Burkitt, The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, Vol. I, Cambridge, 1904

"In Paradise," אABVgJ11,13,16; Gr., en toi pa·ra·dei´soi; J17,18,22(Heb.), beghan-`E´dhen, "in the garden of Eden." See Ge 2:8, 10, 15, 16, in LXX.