Respectful questions on a difficult subject

[kiwimac]

Thipps,

My wife will be VERY surprised to discover I am a homosexual. Aren't preconceptions a bitch!

As for taking it elsewhere as you can imagine I will but nonetheless one must speak truth to power regardless of how popular / unpopular it makes you.

Kiwimac

[thipps]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Thipps,

My wife will be VERY surprised to discover I am a homosexual. Aren't preconceptions a bitch!

As for taking it elsewhere as you can imagine I will but nonetheless one must speak truth to power regardless of how popular / unpopular it makes you.

Kiwimac

as for ur wife, the word 'shock' comes to mind and a few others but thats not our topic.
and i seem to recall that the person who propounded this theory that… ‘Homosexuality is Genetic’ - he himself was a homosexual.
oh and since u r urself one, no surprise that your defending the whole thing so strongly. But again, this is the Islam forum, not the homosexual rights forum. so please refrain from attacking Islam, regardless of your sexual orientation. Please read the CoC if you have doubts.
thipps.

[kiwimac]

Thipps,

Let me be clear:

I am not a homosexual, one need not be something in order to defend those being attacked by others.

I am a married man (14 years last count) 3 children and I still believe homosexuals are just a worthy of God's love as anyone else.

I am not attacking Islam, just a muslim. There is a considerable difference which you do not seem to acknowledge. NMP. I am a theologian, thinker and dreamer. I have considerable experience in comparative religious studies including studies in Islam.

Kiwimac

[Aidyl Nurhadi]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Thipps,

My wife will be VERY surprised to discover I am a homosexual. Aren't preconceptions a bitch!

As for taking it elsewhere as you can imagine I will but nonetheless one must speak truth to power regardless of how popular / unpopular it makes you.

Kiwimac

you're confusing people.......lol

[redindica]

If Homosexuality is an illness and the comments towards it on this thread are insulting towards kiwiman and his motivations and the "act itself" is dispised by the contributers on this thread.

In this light does Islam allow sick people to be hated like this? If so where is it written

Peace
Redindica

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Thipps,

I am not attacking Islam, just a muslim. There is a considerable difference which you do not seem to acknowledge. NMP. I am a theologian, thinker and dreamer. I have considerable experience in comparative religious studies including studies in Islam.

While you are on the Islam board, you are enjoying the hospitality of Muslims, though.

If there are different perspectives on an Islamic views of homosexuality from Muslims themselves, that all contributes to the nature of the original discussion.

If views of homosexuality from non-Muslims are given in answer to this thread, it confuses the discussion.

Islam and Muslims are not on trial here - simply asked to volunteer their time to provide answers on Islam from a Muslim perspective. It would be great to respect that.

[Light]

Allah has condemned and destroy cities where homosexuality and lesbianism is rampant.

Quran Sura 11 verses 77 - 82

77. And when Our messengers came unto Lot, he was distressed and knew not how to protect them. He said: This is a distressful day.

78. And his people came unto him, running towards him - and before then they used to commit abominations - He said: O my people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you. Beware of Allah, and degrade me not in (the person of) my guests. Is there not among you any upright man?

79. They said: Well thou knowest that we have no right on thy daughters, and well thou knowest what we want.

80. He said: Would that I had strength to resist you or had some strong support (among you)!

81. (The messengers) said: O Lot! Lo! we are messengers of thy Lord; they shall not reach thee. So travel with thy people in a part of the night, and let not one of you turn round - (all) save thy wife. Lo! that which smiteth them with smite her (also). Lo! their tryst is (for) the morning. Is not morning nigh?

82. So when Our commandment came to pass We overthrew (that township) and rained upon it stones of clay, one after another

It is a grave sin for one to go near fornication. Even more so for homosexuality and lesbianism. Fornication can be overcome with marriage. And Islam regards marriage as the fullfilment of half of the man faith. However, for homosexual and lesbianism, not only it is outright condemned, it is also going against the natural purpose of our body.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

While you are on the Islam board, you are enjoying the hospitality of Muslims, though.

If there are different perspectives on an Islamic views of homosexuality from Muslims themselves, that all contributes to the nature of the original discussion.

If views of homosexuality from non-Muslims are given in answer to this thread, it confuses the discussion.

Islam and Muslims are not on trial here - simply asked to volunteer their time to provide answers on Islam from a Muslim perspective. It would be great to respect that.

Thank you, I, Brian. As I said, my intention with this thread is NOT to attack anyone's point of view or to pick a fight. As could be expected, I have very strong opinions of my own regarding homosexuality, but I already know what they are, and I'm interested in what others have to say. I knew when I started this thread that at least some of the answers I got would likely be less than comforting to some, not least me, but that didn't take away from my honest desire to hear the perspective of the Muslims on this board.

[I, Brian]

Indeed, I think you broached the question with due care - it's more that some of the other posters have seemed more careless.

[SpiritualHumanist]

Homosexulaity is either forbidden or looked down upon in all Abraham( religions)This is intresting because Pagan, Hinduism, Buddhaism, New Thought,
Toaist , Humanist,Vegans.They arent concerned with such things. Because God/ Goddess is a process to them not a dictator diety with an agenda.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Okay, just a polite note to say that this thread is on the Islam board - which means it's for Muslims to provide Muslim perspectives.

If we want to suggest or criticise any religious perspective, they would probably do better to post or start a new thread on the Politics or Comparative Studies boards, thanks.

It would be, unfortunately the more intolerant muslims are incapable of debating on an open thread and hide here where the debate is always on their terms.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by thipps

We must submit to Allaah on His terms, not ours. You come to your Lord completely and fully. There is no negotiating table here.

Amen! This is the point. Whatever the discussion topic, there are those who will submit and those who will not. It's all or nothing (imo).

And in the end, Allah (swt) will decide.

[Kaspar]

I like SpiritualHumanist's contribution. It isn't just muslims who think homosexuality is wrong. All the Abraham religions denounce it. Not to mention widerspread opinion across the caribbean, latin America, and the world for that matter.

Homosexuality is an issue regarless of faith or ethnicity. Therefore IMO to attempt to have a discussion about it from a strictly muslim perspective is beside the point.

I Personally see the act of homosexuality harmless, unlike bestiality, and paedophilia, homosexuality is conducted between two consenting partners. The fact that it is impossible to have children is not a problem, theres far too many people on the planet anyway.

In some areas western thought and Islamic tradition dissagree, if such was not the case then it would undermine their independant development. If they are to influence each other, to create new offshoots, like the teachings of the canadian lesbian "muslim" Irshad Manji then that is not to say she is devoid of all common sense. Many good things have come out of fusions of cultures certainly in the context of music.

Many good points in this thread but it is sometimes hard when people debating have to take assumptions like "at least tolerant of lesbianism" or "Lesbianism is a Mental illness." Let us first outline whether we will assume Lesbianism is accepted or rejected before we discuss its wider implications.

Peace

[Muslimwoman]

as salaam aleykum

Homosexuality is against the nature of human life, it is abhorrent in the eyes of Allah and is not a natural lifestyle.

However, nobody knows if it is a mental illness or if peoples genes are mixed up in the womb - we simply do not know why people feel and behave this way. We do know it is not hereditory or they would never have existed. Of course people should be discouraged from this lifestyle and maybe even seek professional help. Certainly for males they are physically damaging a part of their body which is being used/abused against it's intended use. This also goes against Islam, as we are told not to do anything that harms us.

Clearly this poor desperate woman is trying to find something in the Quran that will support her lifestyle and I am afraid she will fail, because no such support exists.

For my fellow Muslims who are being so verbal on this thread, I suggest you visit Saudi and see how many young male prostitutes are picked up by rich businessmen in hotels, before they return home to their wife or wives and children. This does not make it ok in any way but I would warn against the pot calling the kettle black.

I was also quite frankly peeved to see how my fellow Muslims speak to people of other faiths on the Islam board (calling them homosexual, etc). Is this how you would treat a guest in your home? Would your family allow you to speak to anyone this way? The original post asked some reasonable questions, in a clear and respectful manner and you immediately went for the throat and began ranting and making completely uneducated accusations. Why can't you simply explain, in a decent manner, the Islamic view and if necessary provide evidence to support this view? Perhaps you should spend a little less time posting such intolerance and more time reciting the Quran until you learn to behave as a decent Muslim.

Salaam

[Abdullah]

Homosexuality in Islam is a great abomination and a crime, it can never be tollerated in the sense that it is ok to be a homosexual, it can only be tolerated in the sense that, homosexuals shouldn't be harrased or persecuted...

Peace