Renamed to Alternative

I, Brian · 04-29-2006, 11:05 AM

We used to have a section titled "Alternative", which incorporated Neopaganism, Esoteric, Magickal, and New Age traditions - but for some reason a while back I had changed this to "Paganism".

I've now changed that section title back to "Alternative", but looking at the boards and content there I really need to tidy it up, as its somewhat disorganised at present.

I'm going to try and get that done over the weekend, but if anyone would like to make any suggestions while I'm doing so, feel free to make them.

pohaikawahine · 05-02-2006, 04:22 PM

aloha e i-brian .... where are you thinking about placing 'mysticism' since almost all religions and ancient cultures have a 'mysticism' side to them .... gnostism (which is just another form of mysticism) seems related to christianity, mysticism is closer to what I perceive as the kaballah, and there are the sufi's and also the druids have a mysticism side, the freemasons and knights templar ways, and of course shamanism (in its true essence) .... and let us not forget the kahuna of hawaii nei (I had to add that) .... to me this is the real essence of cross cultural/religious study ....I believe the connections in this area alone will help us bridge the gaps in 'oneness' and when we rediscover our connections the change will move even faster toward the regathering and it would be great if we could enter the promise land together .... aloha nui, poh

I, Brian · 05-02-2006, 05:03 PM

Yes, it's simply because mysticism can cross religious boundaries a lot more freely, so I figured it would be better having it's own section, rather than being spread around different boards.

2c.

AletheiaRivers · 05-05-2006, 05:58 PM

Um, I have always been thrown by the "Esoteric" section. It seems to me that crystals et al, should be in magick. It just seems an unnecessary seperation and that the two sections could be combined.

My .02$

taijasi · 05-05-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

Um, I have always been thrown by the "Esoteric" section. It seems to me that crystals et al, should be in magick. It just seems an unnecessary seperation and that the two sections could be combined.

My .02$

Aletheia, I think you raise a valid point here, and I'm smacking myself in the forehead and wondering why didn't this hit me before! Except that I think the forum we're talking about, which is conspicuous by its absence, should be called New Age.

Forgive me if I've missed prior discussions about this exact wording. But I fail to see how anyone could dispute or disagree with the importance of including this forum, or sub-forum. And what a fine place it would be/should be to discuss "crystals," and presumedly the "et al" you refer to. Just look up `New Age' on Wikipedia, and there's your crystal (image) right there front & center. Below, a crop circle, and both of these are definitely `New Age' topics.

Yes, we could babble on for days about just whether or not "New Age" is a religion, and how this is to be distinguished from The Perennial Philosophy, and esoteric aspects of the various religions. But I believe a `New Age' section is the forum that's been missing. I'm very curious to know about re-org, Brian - and hope this post isn't too late for consideration ...

I would like to say, once more, that Esoteric is very important to me, for several reasons, although I will add that I think the name should be changed to `Esotericism.' This change would better reflect the existence of many, many thousands (tens, even hundreds of thousands) of individuals who identify themselves variously as Occultists, Esotericists, Theosophists, Rosicrucians, students of the Ageless Wisdom, Perennialists, students of the Mystery Teachings, and neophytes/aspirants/disciples/Initiates. True, no actual Initiate would say, "I am an Initiate," but still, we can all be forgiving.

My preference for esotericism over esoterism comes from the popularity of the former, with twice as many hits on Google, and no existence in Webster's Collegiate at all for `esoterism,' only in the unabridged. And yes, this is a very inclusive term (the above categories are not exhaustive), while still remaining selective enough that I think many people (past, present and future) would feel at home there.

As a person who most closely tries to identify as an esotericist in my better moments ... I would be happy to do whatever is necessary & useful (as time permits) to help maintain & build an Esotericism forum. My contributions thus far - have been somewhat scarce, and I regret it!

This said, I think the New Age forum/sub-forum is sorely missing, and would engender/allow a much different range, and focus of dialogue & discovery than Esotericism. Both forums need to exist, it seems to me.

I cannot comment as strongly on `Magick,' yet from what I understand & believe, this forum, too, deserves its own independence. It might not be a forum that I would feel inclined to post on all that often, but then, this is true for all of us, for many of the forums!

Respectfully,

taijasi

AletheiaRivers · 05-05-2006, 09:41 PM

Actually, I was thinking about this a bit more after I posted, and the term 'New Age' popped to mind as well.

Esotericism includes mysticism, Sufi, Kabbalah, theosophy, anthroposophy, sophia perennis, neo-platonism, gnosticism, et al.

I have never thought of esotericism as being crystals, divination or anything of that nature. I would call that magic(k) or new age.

I, Brian · 05-06-2006, 09:22 AM

Funnily enough, I believe one of those subforums was called New Age - then a regular member at the time objected to the title, because they felt the term demeaning, and would equally be seen as demeaning to others like her, and that the board derserved a title that connected her beliefs with more respectable ancient traditions...

I figure there should be no problems changing it back?

taijasi · 05-06-2006, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Funnily enough, I believe one of those subforums was called New Age - then a regular member at the time objected to the title, because they felt the term demeaning, and would equally be seen as demeaning to others like her, and that the board derserved a title that connected her beliefs with more respectable ancient traditions...

I figure there should be no problems changing it back?

Yes, Brian, that occurred to me too. One caveat people sometimes have is that 90% of what falls under "New Age" is actually teachings from the most ancient of religions. But I think it's safe to associate the term New Age with the astrological Era of Aquarius, which some would say we've been in for 60 years (!), and which others would say we're most certainly transitioning into. New Age beliefs do have to do with new presentations, if nothing else.

If any active folks nowadays have objections, maybe they voice them here?

cheers,

andrew

I, Brian · 05-06-2006, 11:44 PM

Sounds like a plan to me - to some perhaps New Age sounds like a denigrating term, but personally to me, it simply brings together a number of traditions and philosophies under a general banner - an approach using multiple sources and inspirations.

I've not had time to order the sections as suggested above, but if people are happy with the title of New Age, it will hopefully make it easier to re-order the discussions on those boards.

AletheiaRivers · 05-07-2006, 12:11 AM

I'd keep the title of the section as Alternative. I'd change the name of the "esoteric" section to "new age." Or perhaps combine the esoteric section in with the magick, as crystals and such are often part of working spells anyway.

I dunno.

There is a line between neo-pagan and esoterical.

taijasi · 05-07-2006, 12:32 AM

Look, I'd just like to be clear, since I think somehow this point is being missed. I don't care whether a forum/sub-forum (under Alt) be called Esotericism, Esoterism, Esoteric, Perennialist, Sophia Perennis, Perennial Philosophy, Ageless Wisdom, Mystery Traditions, or another, similar concept. But let's please not keep trying to collapse `esoteric.' It is the ONE sub-forum on here which at present still represents the Ageless Wisdom, and succinctly so. To emphasize this, if you can't see what I'm saying, then I'd have to say your "home forum" is probably not esoteric ...

This isn't my board, and I'm just one person ... But if you happened to hearken from a Theosophical background, and share an interest in such recent Messengers (`prophets') as H.P. Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Helena Roerich, and Lucille Cedercrans, then you'd agree that Esoteric(ism) needs to stay. I have even volunteered to contribute as much, and as broadly, as could reasonably be expected to this forum. But if the Ageless Wisdom gets lumped in with mysticism, new age, or any other sub-forum, I feel that something will be missing. True, you can walk into many bookstores, and still find the only esoteric titles under New Age or Alternative, but since we have some leeway here, and a chance to give input - that's what I'm doing.

The Ageless Wisdom traditions, though acknowledging certain commonalities and overlap with Paganism/Neo-Paganism, also have a great deal of overlap with Christian and Abrahamic traditions, as well as with the Western Alchemical, Masonic, Gnostic, Rosicrucian, Theosphical and other movements. If someone can come up with a better catchphrase for all of this than I have, which does not dip too exclusively into any one of them, then please go right ahead. But if not, could we please keep Esoteric, or even rename it to Esotericism? Occultism is no longer in vogue, and has a negative connotation any more, else if this discussion were taking place 100 years ago, I would vote on Occultism.

Namaskar,

taijasi

AletheiaRivers · 05-07-2006, 05:43 AM

Taij,

I'm so sorry that my thoughts didn't come out well.

I know what I mean to say in my head, but it doesn't come out clearly on the bulletin board. I read back over my posts and my words were completely kablooey.

I'm not saying to get rid of the esoteric section. I was saying to have it be more geared towards subjects like theosophy, etc ...

I actually think you and I are on the exact same page with this, but I didn't explain myself well. A better way of saying would have been for me to say to change the description underneath the title Esoteric to say something different?

What I was thinking would be THREE subforums under alternative:

Mysticism & Esoteric (which would be theosophy, anthroposophy, kabbalah, sophia perennis, etc - the wisdom traditions)
Magick (Ritual magic, divination, tarot, ceremony, crystals, etc)
Neo-Paganism (Wicca, witchcraft, asatru, reconstructionism, magick, etc)

Anyway, sorry for the confusion.

AletheiaRivers · 05-07-2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

Look, I'd just like to be clear... To emphasize this, if you can't see what I'm saying, then I'd have to say your "home forum" is probably not esoteric ...

PS - I have to add that, actually, I came here looking for a new "home forum" because I find I don't quite fit anywhere. I'm a mystic. I'm esoteric. I'm deeply interested in the perennial philosophy. I'm a pluralist (of course). I'm Christian but have Eastern leanings with a particular interest in Hinduism. I'm a "qualified monist" with a panentheist flavor.

I thought if I was going to fit in anywhere, I'd fit in on a comparative religion board. I've lurked for quite a while. Only signed up a little bit ago. However, I haven't posted much because, in all honesty, the mood here is a tad more confrontational than I care for.

Perhaps it's a sign that I should keep on a wandering ...

taijasi · 05-07-2006, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

PS - I have to add that, actually, I came here looking for a new "home forum" because I find I don't quite fit anywhere. I'm a mystic. I'm esoteric. I'm deeply interested in the perennial philosophy. I'm a pluralist (of course). I'm Christian but have Eastern leanings with a particular interest in Hinduism. I'm a "qualified monist" with a panentheist flavor.

I thought if I was going to fit in anywhere, I'd fit in on a comparative religion board. I've lurked for quite a while. Only signed up a little bit ago. However, I haven't posted much because, in all honesty, the mood here is a tad more confrontational than I care for.

Perhaps it's a sign that I should keep on a wandering ...

Well, my apologies for being confrontational - lol. Of all the folks I don't wanna bump heads/hearts with here, you'd be pretty close to tops!

I notice that folks with esoteric connections often pass through, but other than Pohwaikahine, and maybe 1 or 2 others, few call it home.

Yeah, there's quite a bit of exchange on xianity right now, but that will die down and things return to normal I suspect, and much good has come out of the mixing. It just upsets folks a bit, and I think I can understand why. I've posted plenty of challenging stuff in the past, and have in mind a few posts for Esoteric/Alt which would definitely not be welcomed on xianity.

Still, my background (childhood) is Lutheran, and after being intentionally apostate due to apathy, laziness and the normal processes of growing up/exploration, I came to embrace Xianity from a whole new perspective. I have grown increasingly interested in the early days of the faith, and I like to drop in on the forum here sometimes, but everything's so territorial right now. Important to let folks settle down ...

Anyway, I like your suggestions (earlier post), and sorry for the confusion. Glad to meet you, glad you're here, and PLEASE STAY!!!

cheerio,

andrew/taijasi

AletheiaRivers · 05-07-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

Of all the folks I don't wanna bump heads/hearts with here, you'd be pretty close to tops!

What a nice thing to say (I think?) I hope it doesn't mean that I'm intimidating?

Quote:

Anyway, I like your suggestions (earlier post), and sorry for the confusion. Glad to meet you, glad you're here, and PLEASE STAY!!!

Thanks andrew. I woke up this morning figuring I'd probably stay despite my second thoughts last night. It's nice to be welcomed and invited nonetheless.