Religions vs. religions

[Jim M2]

Kathe,

Sorry for the delayed response. I'm not a good person to discuss the concept of one God. Somewhere in my journey I became comfortable with first cause, necessary being, monotheism...etc. I can't remember specifics, but at this point I say simply that I accept there is one God.

As far as a corresponding evil god (referring to post #13) I tend to think free will opens the door to evil.

All the best,
Jim

[Gulliver]

Originally Posted by Käthe

Just out of curiosity, why?

I'm being serious, why can there be only one "God"?

To break God up into parts just puts off the ultimate question, "Who made the parts?"

Whatever you define as God must, by definition, be the "beginning of the fractal" (the true First Cause) or you haven't gone far enough down the philosophical rabbit hole yet.

My own inner beliefs tell me that we are all One with the Creator of this universe, all separation is an illusion, and that illusion encompasses the possibility of endless "levels of being" between us and the Heart of Creator. Any of those other levels of being could be interpreted as "gods" (little g) by some.

At least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.

SIDE NOTE: As a new member, let me say that these are wonderful forums. This is without a doubt one of the most mature spiritual discussion sites I've ever encountered. A thousand thanx to the administrators who have created such a wonderful place to discuss and compare thoughts. It is an honor to be able to join this roundtable.

[Jean-h]

Spirituality is a hard and lonesome way one has to follow to grow.
Religion is tailor-made thoughts !

[akbar]

Jean, You are abosolutely right to say,

"Spirituality is a hard and lonesome way one has to follow to grow.
Religion is tailor-made thoughts !"

[akbar]

Jim M2

I accept there is one God.

Yes, I agree and believe so.

[mee]

psalm 83;18

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth

[Jean-h]

Originally Posted by Obvious Child

Only if you believe in a truly existent evil. Which I do, but there you go.

In practise, many monotheism worship god indirectly and are in a sense polymorphous too. Cults of saints etc. spring to mind.

He is not a true opposite God though as he has no independent power.
Mainstream Christians do not consider the spirit neuter, when they consider it at all. It is feminine in the OT and neuter in the NT, but is often considered male, like the rest of God, or neuter.

The early Zorastrianism was dualist: in fact that was its fundamental characteristic from the Christian POV. They did add the over-god who transcended light and dark, good and evil, later.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

[Jean-h]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (KJV)

Isaiah 45:7

[Jean-h]

Hymn to Zeus



Whoever you are, wherever you are, Zeus, God, I praise you for being
merciless, for not sparing anyone, for not making exceptions for anyone, for
not being concerned of the salvation of anyone in particular, for not sending
any Saviour to anyone.

You are not good. You are even less merciful. But you give each being according to what he can take. You are not just in a human way, giving each the same portion. You are just in the same manner as the scales, where the least weight has its importance. Going forward along the way of your Law, thin as the wire of a tightrope walker, each being tries to keep one’s balance, or to loose it just a brief moment, in a movement that will save him. If the tight walker has overestimated his own strength, and he falls, you don’t work any miracle to save him and you let him crash without pardon.

You are non egalitarian. But much less than one would suspect, because you give invisible compensations. You make the slaves love their chains, the disabled love their disabilities, the afflicted their tears, the humbles their humility. You remove in the equality of death the failures and the faults, because you also remove the triumphs and the virtues. You remove the sorrows and the mourning, because you remove the joys and the ecstasies in the same way. You send back to nothingness the executioners and the victims, the mighty and the weak. Those that die before their time lose less that would appear, because you extend the time of youth that seems to last an eternity, and you shorten the time of old age, that goes by as a shadow.

You are not the reason. You are not the Logos. Because you are the base of reason and reasoning. You are not a mathematician, a geometrician, but you give the mathematicians, the lovers of sciences and games, the ground where they can play.

You are not the Word, not even the Language, or the Signification,
because you are beyond not only the words, but the meanings. You express
yourself in your creatures, but your creation does not mean anything, not
even your glory. You are not intelligible, and you do not seem to appreciate
pure intelligence. But you give to understand according to the needs of
each being. You show yourself in all clarity to those that have eyes to see,
because you are an unintelligible god, but not a hidden god.

You are not Love, but you are even less Hate. You make hatred difficult to those that feel it and love delicious to those that can keep just for one moment a haven of security and intimacy. You force each one to defend himself, to kill to live, to have fangs and claws, to cling to his own domain. But you do not favour violence no more than weakness, and you destroy the violent as well as the one that accept to be aggressed. You only favour the eagerness to live, to hold, to repair, to continue, to resist.




You allow the lie when it is a weapon to survive. You allow the disguise, the mimicry of the predator or the pray, the publicity to attract or to frighten or to confuse. You allow beautiful speeches intended to dazzle. But you do not accept the least trick in constructions and you do not save the ones that sink in boat made of cardboard , or the ones that are crushed by poorly balanced buildings.

I praise you for being indifferent to my praise, just like you would be
to my imprécations.

I praise you for having given me life, and to let me live a moment longer, before you let me die – without last judgement, without reward nor punishment – just like you will let the whole of mankind die and all the living one. At least on this earth that is not promised to eternal life, but that will have been a window on eternity.

Cléanthe (+/- 300 b.c.)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Jean-h

Hymn to Zeus



Whoever you are, wherever you are, Zeus, God, I praise you for being
merciless, for not sparing anyone, for not making exceptions for anyone, for
not being concerned of the salvation of anyone in particular, for not sending
any Saviour to anyone.

You are not good. You are even less merciful. But you give each being according to what he can take. You are not just in a human way, giving each the same portion. You are just in the same manner as the scales, where the least weight has its importance. Going forward along the way of your Law, thin as the wire of a tightrope walker, each being tries to keep one’s balance, or to loose it just a brief moment, in a movement that will save him. If the tight walker has overestimated his own strength, and he falls, you don’t work any miracle to save him and you let him crash without pardon.

You are non egalitarian. But much less than one would suspect, because you give invisible compensations. You make the slaves love their chains, the disabled love their disabilities, the afflicted their tears, the humbles their humility. You remove in the equality of death the failures and the faults, because you also remove the triumphs and the virtues. You remove the sorrows and the mourning, because you remove the joys and the ecstasies in the same way. You send back to nothingness the executioners and the victims, the mighty and the weak. Those that die before their time lose less that would appear, because you extend the time of youth that seems to last an eternity, and you shorten the time of old age, that goes by as a shadow.

You are not the reason. You are not the Logos. Because you are the base of reason and reasoning. You are not a mathematician, a geometrician, but you give the mathematicians, the lovers of sciences and games, the ground where they can play.

You are not the Word, not even the Language, or the Signification,
because you are beyond not only the words, but the meanings. You express
yourself in your creatures, but your creation does not mean anything, not
even your glory. You are not intelligible, and you do not seem to appreciate
pure intelligence. But you give to understand according to the needs of
each being. You show yourself in all clarity to those that have eyes to see,
because you are an unintelligible god, but not a hidden god.

You are not Love, but you are even less Hate. You make hatred difficult to those that feel it and love delicious to those that can keep just for one moment a haven of security and intimacy. You force each one to defend himself, to kill to live, to have fangs and claws, to cling to his own domain. But you do not favour violence no more than weakness, and you destroy the violent as well as the one that accept to be aggressed. You only favour the eagerness to live, to hold, to repair, to continue, to resist.




You allow the lie when it is a weapon to survive. You allow the disguise, the mimicry of the predator or the pray, the publicity to attract or to frighten or to confuse. You allow beautiful speeches intended to dazzle. But you do not accept the least trick in constructions and you do not save the ones that sink in boat made of cardboard , or the ones that are crushed by poorly balanced buildings.

I praise you for being indifferent to my praise, just like you would be
to my imprécations.

I praise you for having given me life, and to let me live a moment longer, before you let me die – without last judgement, without reward nor punishment – just like you will let the whole of mankind die and all the living one. At least on this earth that is not promised to eternal life, but that will have been a window on eternity.

Cléanthe (+/- 300 b.c.)

Are you expressing an opinion? Or are you presenting old adages from times gone by? I'm serious, Is this your opinion, or understanding, or way of life?

I'd like to know...