Reincarnation in all religions

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by earl

To get back to that candle/tulku thing, it seems then if you buy into this Buddhist model that not only are our bodies on loan from the All & contain bits & pieces of far flung points of the material universe, but all aspects of what we consider ourself may be on loan. Further, wouldn't it be interesting if our "sins" were not only sins of the father, mother brothers, (of this life) etc, but of many relations of many past lives and so healing our current wounds is redeeming the condition of many beings of endless time and likewise what if our strengths have been passed along to us from many beings of this and endless time? The phrase "we're all in this together" would certainly take on added dimension and perhaps in this way the Buddhists' bodhisattva vow to "save all sentient beings" as well as the Zen notion of when 1 becomes enlightened we take all beings with us can really make sense.

Very interesting, earl. I think we are, in a sense, "on loan"- all of us. Our souls as well as our bodies really belong to God, as it is God that created us, and it is God's breath that animates us (at least in this pseudo-Christian view!). Though I believe each of us is created unique, I do believe that it is possible that ultimately, when we have completed our spiritual development that we return to God in a spiritual sense. Not so much the extinguishing of the self, but rather the idea of the drop of water returning to the ocean- becoming part of the Process of God. As opposed to a paradise type heaven that is more akin to the Otherworld/Summerlands concept. I wrote something about this somewhere...

I always found the idea of bodhisattvas very interesting, and the idea that healing current wounds, in ourselves and the entire earth, somehow also effects all beings in all times. In a way, this concept is at the heart of Christianity- Jesus' union of the Divine and humanity in himself, and his perfect union with God, cleared the way for salvation for countless beings- past, present, and future.

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

For few days I was not on my computer and so, I did not see your incoming posts. All are very interesting although not all of them in agreement with Vedic opinion. I would like to comment on all the posts but it is too much. So anyway, I picked up some points. Please, don't be offended by my comments I only give here philosophical understanding. I don't attack here anybodies personality.

# Some animals care a great deal about sociality, about love and affection.
* This is there in all species of life.

# I believe that animal spirits have wisdom and a sentience
* Sentience they have but not wisdom. Wisdom means philosophy. E.g. what philosophy a horse did teach you what you could write down in one book? According to the definition wisdom implies: mystical knowledge and understanding; spiritual gift which enables one to know the purpose and plan of God; it is the ability to discern inner qualities and relationships; it is synonymous with insight, good sense, and sound judgment. It means to have "deep understanding", "to have keen discernment", "to have sanctified common sense", "to have the capacity for sound judgment".
* So, considering all this I think your opinion that animals have wisdom is based on sentimentality.

# I don't believe anyone really understands the soul or God.
* Did you see all the people all over the world from all the religions that you can claim this to be 100% truth?

# I think animals, and all of nature, feel the existence of God.
* Thinking means speculating. IOW when you say something you have to have a perfect authority behind your words and not only just think something. So many people think so many things anyway.
* To be aware and to feel the existence of God one have to be first in spiritual platform and not on the platform of sensuality like the animals.

# I don't think it is necessary to realize the self in order to realize God.
* Self-realization means getting clear realization that you are different from the body. If you don't understand the difference you will continue your materialistic sense gratification. But such materialistic spirituality will never help you to understand God and to attain Him. God fulfills ones desires. If you are attached to enjoy the material world, God will give you opportunity in the next life to get a suitable material body in this material world so that you can continue to enjoy your sense gratification.

# I don't believe knowing God and salvation is about education, logic, or controlling the senses.
* Ultimately not, You are right. It's the love fro God what counts. But in the beginning education and logic helps to develop faith in God. Moreover, knowledge can increase your attraction toward God. E.g. just as a boy's attraction increases by knowing a girlfriend more and more, similarly it is so with God. And even more so, because God don't have any faults.

# Sensuality is not bad.
* There is a say spiritual life and material enjoyment go ill together. To what do you actually give pleasure? to the body. Not to the soul. I hope that you at least understand the basic difference between the body and the soul.
* Anyway, sense gratification doesn't give at all the real lasting pleasure what we searching for. Only if you would get pleasure for the soul, that pleasure would constantly increase day by day.
* So, If you a bit analyse the things as they are you can see that there is no any real enjoyment in this world. In the beginning when you like to get your enjoyment you are hankering after it and you are only in anxiety if you will get your desired object of sense gratification.
* When you get it somehow, the enjoyment is short. E.g. how long you can enjoy a meal? Not for long. Then the enjoyments are also accompanied with anxiety e.g. that you will lose your pet dog.
* And when it happens that you lose your object of sense gratification then you lament, cry etc.
* So, where is the real undisturbed happiness? It can be found only on the platform of the soul with God. But to attain such spiritual platform you have to give up sensuality. IOW sensuality will be the cause only of your further materialistic life and sense gratification. Remember, God will always give to you that what you like to attain after you deserve that. Love of God is not cheap.

# God created all life, and gave us the wondrous capacity to feel the warmth of sunshine, His gentle touch in the breeze, to see the heavens and to hear the roar of life in the oceans.
* This as the vision of one who is in goodness. Such person exactly think like you are describing it here IOW he / she thinks this material world is nice for enjoyment. He feels peace and happiness. However, this is still described to be a materially conditioned person because of his attachment to this material world. According to the science of reincarnation explained by God, Krishna such person in the mode of goodness will take birth in the next life as a human being.
* But anyway, there is a higher level of existence, and that is when one transcends the attraction to this material world by using everything for the pleasure of God. That is the platform of getting real happiness when one gets it directly from God. Why? When God is pleased with us by His spiritual pleasure potency He bless us with spiritual happiness. Happiness that doesn't come from God is never a real happiness and it is always temporary and is just like a shadow compared to the experience of spiritual happiness given by God.
* So, desire for sensuality will give you only material short happiness and when you please God by your activities using everything for His pleasure you will get the real spiritual happiness.

# spiritual ecstasy is itself a sensual experience
* This is not at all true. The material happiness is experienced by material senses not by the soul. And the spiritual happiness or spiritual ecstasy is the experienced by the soul and not the material senses. You have to learn to make distinction between the body and soul.

# I don't believe becoming pious is the goal.
* Spiritual piety includes love of God and service to God the source of all pleasure. If that's not your goal o life that's your problem.

# I believe God-consciousness is not the same for all species, for of course we have different brains and nervous systems- but I think the sign of God-consciousness is love, not ecstasy.
* To explain all the different levels of consciousness it would take too long. Maybe in some other post. But let me say two things here. If any of the species attain God-consciousness by mercy of God that is not because a nervous system. The nervous system is also only a part of the material body and not of the soul. Love of God is attained on the platform of the soul and not the platform of the body. The symptom of love of God is the ecstasy of love of God.

[Prober]

One is reincarnated daily in the nature of one's choices.